Intonation, Compensated Saddles, and String Guage

[lpa53]

I've always had a problem with the B-string on all guitars I've owned, especially further op the neck. This includes my 1974 D-50. Is this just a sonics problem that can't be solved or do the new saddles with offsets really fix it?

I that would fix it I don't think re-doing a D-50 bridge would be kosher but would filing the saddle at the B do anything to help? Or is there an off-the-shelf compensated saddle made for a D-50-type bridge slot

Do different strings or string guages help? Since I'm just starting back up again I've been using GHS phosphor bronze S315 extra lights. I'm finally starting to get callouses again so thought maybe I should move up. Does anyone know what string guage and type usually comes with D-50s?

 

[chazzan]

You can make a compensated saddle that notches the B string back- that will help improve intonation- it makes a difference.

Also lighter strings can be harder to intonate that heavier ones- may I suggest 12-54 light strings.

Lastly I notice you live in Wheaton. Go to Tobias Music in Downers Grove- they have two expert repairman Ken and Joe. They will help-this is the best store aroung bar none!

I also bought my first two Guilds there f-112 and f-30 in excellent shape for about $530 each.........of course this was 5-10 years ago..............

 

[lpa53]

Funny you should mention Tobias. They really are the go-to guys and are super-pleasant to boot. They mentioned to me that they could try filing down saddle at the b-string to see if that would help but thought that a full job by the luthiers they work with could involve re-doing the bridge and that's not something I think I'd want to do.

Considering how thin the saddle is, do you think it could be altered enough at the B to make a difference? The only other way I could see would be to have a saddle with a lower half fitting the existing slot but with a thicker upper part that does the compensation.

It looks like 12-54 would be a light where mine now are XLs. My callouses are getting good enough now that I think I'll give that a shot.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Try tuning the B string while fretted at the second fret. This will put the string slightly flat in open position.
I have been doing this for over 30 years.
The B string will sound closer to being in tune with the other strings when chording in open position. You may have to drop it even a little flatter if you capo past the third fret.
I also do this on my bass E string on several guitars.
Heaver strings won't need to be compenstaed as much as extra lights will.
A compensated saddle will help a lot, but may not totally take care of the problem.
I would suggest getting a compensated bone saddle installed in your guitar.
You will like it and wish that you had done it sooner.

 

[Steelpickin']

I have one of these on my DV-52 .

http://www.earvana.com/

 

[lpa53]

Try tuning the B string while fretted at the second fret. This will put the string slightly flat in open position.
I have been doing this for over 30 years.
The B string will sound closer to being in tune with the other strings when chording in open position. You may have to drop it even a little flatter if you capo past the third fret.
I also do this on my bass E string on several guitars.
Heaver strings won't need to be compenstaed as much as extra lights will.
A compensated saddle will help a lot, but may not totally take care of the problem.
I would suggest getting a compensated bone saddle installed in your guitar.
You will like it and wish that you had done it sooner.

I'll give that a shot, thanks. I'd like try a compensated saddle but am worried that installing one would require filling and then recutting the bridge slot. Guess I'll have to visit a couple of repair shops here in the Chicago area and see what they think.

 

[lpa53]

I have one of these on my DV-52 .

http://www.earvana.com/

Am I correct in assuming that what this Earvana does is perform the adjustment at the nut rather than at the saddle?

Does this require cutting down the fretboard to get it installed? Is it adjusted for each specific guitar or are the offsets standard? Were you satisfied with the results?

 

[lpa53]

I have one of these on my DV-52 .

http://www.earvana.com/

Steelpickin - went to the youtube link you list and it was great! Loved it! Is the earvana nut installed on the guitar in that particular video? If it was, you sure couldn't notice it much.

 

[lpa53]

I have one of these on my DV-52 .

http://www.earvana.com/

And a few more questions:

The Earvana site implies that they also offer a retrofit saddle that may be needed to fully correct intonation problems. Is that something you had to do in addition to replacing the nut?

If so, did it fit right into the original slot?

Did you in any way feel that you were "disrespecting" the original guitar or ruining its value by doing this? I have these feelings but think that the music comes first and try to convince myself that doing something like this is making a great guitar even better. Should I feel guilty?

Did you do the installation yourself or have someone do it? If someone else did it, were they local and had they had prior experience with this product?

Thanks for any advice you can give.

 

[Steelpickin']

Hi lpa53,
IF you click around the Earvana website most of your questions are answered, I think. I dont really know all that much about them. The Guild on my youtube site is the one that has this system and it sounds amazing!
But, it was installed by a previous owner not me. My luthier says they work well and I tend to agree. My bridge was re-sloted when who-ever had the system installed although it is my understanding that it not always nessicarry. As far as the value of the guitar in concerned...I cant see how improveing the intonation would hurt any guitars value!.....how much is a guitar worth that does NOT play in tune??...talk to a good luthier before you do anything...it may well be a simple as remaking/adjusting your saddle. Any good luthier can make you a intonated saddle quite easily
and for not too much money but, let them check it out first...they are the experts.

Larry

 

[Steelpickin']

BTW, here is what it looks like on the guitar.

Does not interfere at all.

 

[clark bjorke]

I have one of these on my DV-52 .

http://www.earvana.com/

I don't understand how compensating at the nut can help. As soon as you press down on a string at a fret, the added tension of which you are compensating for, the compensation goes away.

 

[Steelpickin']

Clark, you find this an interesting read

http://www.earvana.com/technology2.htm

 

[lpa53]

Clark, you find this an interesting read

http://www.earvana.com/technology2.htm

I just finished reading the article and got pretty well confused. I think you actually have to watch someone demonstrate it to get it. Some text on the site seem to suggest that even with their nut you may still have to compensate at the saddle.

In your installation did you do just the nut? And if so do you feel that the intonation bettered along the entire fretboard or just in the lower frets.

And does the nut length at each string for each particular guitar or is there a standard nut that that Earvana claims works on all guitars.

In all this I assume that it does also depend on the correct initial placement of the bridge and the proper fretting of the instrument. Should I assume that Guild did a good job in that area?

Maybe I just ought to leave it as is!

hmmmm.... and then I wonder if worn frets causes intonation problems.

 

[clark bjorke]

Clark, you find this an interesting read

http://www.earvana.com/technology2.htm

I just finished reading the article and got pretty well confused. I think you actually have to watch someone demonstrate it to get it. Some text on the site seem to suggest that even with their nut you may still have to compensate at the saddle.

In your installation did you do just the nut? And if so do you feel that the intonation bettered along the entire fretboard or just in the lower frets.

And does the nut length at each string for each particular guitar or is there a standard nut that that Earvana claims works on all guitars.

In all this I assume that it does also depend on the correct initial placement of the bridge and the proper fretting of the instrument. Should I assume that Guild did a good job in that area?

Maybe I just ought to leave it as is!

hmmmm.... and then I wonder if worn frets causes intonation problems.

I'm skeptical. They're saying that the compensation at the nut is for the strectching of the string that occurs after the fretted strng has contacted the fret - that 32nd of an inch or so of fret height. Is it worth it? Worn frets should need less compensation than new ones, by this logic.

 

[Steelpickin']

It was just a sugestion, guys!
I am NO EXPERT on anything.
Someone put this on one of my guitars before I got it.
The innotation is perfect to my ear. I can only imagine if
someone went to the trouble that it was needed. Many high end
custom guitars have intonated nuts and most decent guitars today
have intonated saddles. I'll crawl back under my rock now
Good luck.

 

[clark bjorke]

"I'll crawl back under my rock now"

No, please stay, this is fun!

 

[Steelpickin']

 

[clark bjorke]

Nice rock.

 

[Guildmark]

Nice rock.

Needs a G-Shield on it.