Help needed properly explaining to people why the guild laminate archback is not a bad thing

[Br1ck]

There is exterior plywood and then there is marine grade plywood. I have a friend with a Linda Manzer archtop, twenty thousand plus. Two in fact. One is carved maple and spruce. He couldn't do a jazz gig with a band. It was just too lively, so he ordered a laminate archtop that could take some volume before feedback. Every Gibson archtop like the 335, 175, etc. is laminate, including the top. There are exceptions, but not many. Laminates are not created equal.

Design decissions are neither good nor bad. There are those here that prefer the flatback D 25 and those that prefer the arched back. I've said before, for a band gig, a beat up archback D 25 is hard to beat.

 

[DogsPart2]

My Guild G37 and Gibson Gospel were incredible recording guitars. Wish I had them back.

 

[kostask]

Laminates are not all created equal. As in most things in life, some laminates are great for sound, other laminates are not.

Laminates get a bad rap because a lot of them ARE bad. They are bad because the inner layers in the bad laminates are soft, which causes them to absorb sound, not reflect it. Some of the laminated guitars do have solid wood inner laminates, and sound good. The red label Yamaha FGs, the Selmer Maccaferris (oddest laminate, 2 layer), Guilds with arched backs, that sort of thing. They don't have to be bad, but the vast majority are. Most people run into those bad laminated guitars, and conclude that the laminates are to blame, lumping ALL laminate guitars as bad. Way too many people buy guitars with their eyes and not with their ears.

You CAN find decent sounding laminated guitars, at a cheap price. If you have an Art & Lutherie, Simon & Patrick, or Seagull dealer around, go try one of those guitars from the lower end (stick with a solid top Art & Lutherie). You will be pleasantly surprised. Most Takamine guitars are also laminated.

 

[Coop47]

Why do you want to do that? Archback Guilds are one of the great bargains in used and vintage guitars. Let’s not change that!

Exactly - I think the real problem is that not enough people are aware those archbacks are laminates!

I can't say I was ever a doubter, but I wasn't really a believer until I played one.

 

[dreadnut]

Guild has used the arched back in their entry level guitars and their high end guitars. Mahogany, Maple, Rosewood...

 

[chazmo]

Blake, if your buyer has an open mind, well maybe you can convince them. But good luck on that (he says rather pessimistically). Bottom line is that you have to experience one of the archie-Guilds to understand what it means. There is an enormous bias against plywood guitars that stems mostly from cheap knock-offs from various eras, mostly non-arch-back guitars. You know this.

Having said that, there are some modern luthiers who do amazing things with really interesting laminations. You could point at those as possible justification, but in truth the Guild laminate is really not "new" school at all.

 

[beecee]

I say it is not our burden to educate the knaves, reprobates and wretches.....

But if you must, ask them to consider the fact that Guild uses laminated back and sides on the F-412.

 

[dreadnut]

Just play this video for them -SRV on an archback maple F412...

 

[fronobulax]

Insist on using the word "laminate" and correct them every time they say "plywood".

 

[dreadnut]

Or, just let them wallow in their ignorance, that leaves more Guild archbacks for the rest of us!

 

[davismanLV]

Wait, all F-412's have laminated sides as well?? I didn't know that. So back and sides are laminated on the big maple jumbos??

 

[dreadnut]

Wait, all F-412's have laminated sides as well?? I didn't know that. So back and sides are laminated on the big maple jumbos??

Yup. As is my Mahogany D25M and my 2 friends Rosewood DCE5's.

 

[gjmalcyon]

Wait, all F-412's have laminated sides as well?? I didn't know that. So back and sides are laminated on the big maple jumbos??

Yup. As is my Mahogany D25M and my 2 friends Rosewood DCE5's.

I think F-412's are solid maple sides, laminated back:

 

[Ross]

How do you convince them?
Play for them!

 

[GGJaguar]

I think F-412's are solid maple sides, laminated back:

Not sure about that. See post #6 in this thread.

 

[chazmo]

How do you convince them?
Play for them!

Geez, Ross! Where you been!!!? Welcome back!

 

[gjmalcyon]

Not sure about that. See post #6 in this thread.

So it looks like the sites (and folks like me) that are parroting the published Guild specs say "solid" while Chris' physical inspection says "laminate" (cool link, by the way).

Jamplay's review says laminated.

Current F-512 Maple specs say only:

Body Sides Flamed Maple
Body Back Arched Flamed Maple

 

[Budha]

My JF30-12 made a laminated maple Guild believer out of me. My two rosewood Martins have been collecting dust since Guild laminated maple arrived at my house.

 

[GGJaguar]

There are some top notch custom builders who use laminated sides for their flattops as well as laminated ("double") tops. Just do a search in the Custom folder over at AGF. I have no problem if my F-412 has a lam body. The proof is in the sound.

 

[davismanLV]

I don't have a "problem" with laminated maple sides, but always believed they were solid as mentioned on the Westerly Guild Guitars site. I've always thought solid sides and now laminated sides comes up like it's widely known and i'm confused just like gjmalcyon. So what i want is facts. I'm not judging, I just want the truth.....