Help needed properly explaining to people why the guild laminate archback is not a bad thing

[gjmalcyon]

I don't have a "problem" with laminated maple sides, but always believed they were solid as mentioned on the Westerly Guild Guitars site. I've always thought solid sides and now laminated sides comes up like it's widely known and i'm confused just like gjmalcyon. So what i want is facts. I'm not judging, I just want the truth.....

 

[davismanLV]

That's probably true...... but if I find out y'all been lying to me.......

 

[chazmo]

The F-412 sides from New Hartford were solid. I'm 99-44/100% sure about that. I'm *not* sure about what preceded that.

The "rules" here are not entirely consistent. My F-50 Rosewood from 1967 had Brazilian rosewood laminations on back *and* sides. It's twin, the F-412 Special was the same.

Having said that, I *think* most of the Westerly and beyond F-412s had solid maple sides with the laminate maple back.

 

[dreadnut]

My understanding is that all Westerly archback acoustics were laminate.

 

[bobouz]

If your ‘70s archback has cloth reinforcing strips on the sides, it almost assuredly has solid sides. Same with later models utilizing wood reinforcing strips.

 

[chazmo]

Dread, if that was directed at me, please note that my point was about the guitar sides, not the backs. And, I'm not sure about that generalization, but I think it's correct -- i.e., if it's an arched back acoustic from Westerly (perhaps all Guild shops), then it's a laminate back.

 

[dreadnut]

Sorry chaz, it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, I was just stating what I believed to be true. But Guild had a history of doing different things at different times, and solid sides were evidently used in some models. It only makes sense - they had to bend the solid sides for all their other guitars already.

 

[GGJaguar]

But Guild had a history of doing different things at different times...

Yes, this. Another example is adding carbon reinforcement rods to the single truss rod 12-string necks (NH and Oxnard, not sure about Tacoma). It's a hidden feature, like laminated sides on (pre-)New Hartford F412s.

 

[Ross]

Geez, Ross! Where you been!!!? Welcome back!

Thanks - it's good to be back.
Been lurking for a while, busy with my other lives. But I'm still Guilding!

 

[Rambozo96]

Can confirm the sides on my arched back D-25 is solid. Removed the bridge pin and from what I can see it looks solid to me.

 

[tarheelguild]

I'm fortunate to own a bunch of Westerly Guilds, from a low-end D4 to a high end F50R and I tell you what: the D4 holds up to all the others, arched laminate back included! I've always thought the arched back gives it a little extra "oomph" in the volume and warmth department. But arch back or straight back, they're all good!
Tony
'80 F50R
'84 D40
'87 D50
'96 D4
'98 D30 AB
'98 D25 12
'01 JF30
'00 Taylor 414ce

 

[bobouz]

Last night my made-in-Japan ‘81 Ibanez M-340 acoustic made it into the rotation. Laminated maple back & sides, and a very thin laminated spruce top.

That thing really sounds good!

 

[lonesome picker]

My '71 F-412 has a laminated arched back. I have questions as to the sides. There are no reinforcing strips on the sides, which according to the above indicates laminated sides too. Studying the grain patterns on the interior and exterior is rather inconclusive, other than the grain goes in the same direction on the inside and outside..

How many plies (layers) are in the "plywood" in the back and sides? My understanding of plywood is you alternate grain direction with each layer of wood to create the added strength and stiffness to the wood.

Perhaps all that laminated wood is one reason it weighs so much. No matter to me, it is still the loudest acoustic guitar I have ever played.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

How many plies (layers) are in the "plywood" in the back and sides? My understanding of plywood is you alternate grain direction with each layer of wood to create the added strength and stiffness to the wood.

Haven't we discussed that Guild used the same veneer on the inside and outside of the laminated backs so they match and look solid? Or am I just imagining this discussion?

 

[GGJaguar]

Haven't we discussed that Guild used the same veneer on the inside and outside of the laminated backs so they match and look solid? Or am I just imagining this discussion?

I think I have seen more unmatched inner and outer backs, than matched, but my memory is fuzzy on that. So I will wait for Ralf (or his AI alter ego) to post a link to such a discussion.

 

[davismanLV]

Haven't we discussed that Guild used the same veneer on the inside and outside of the laminated backs so they match and look solid? Or am I just imagining this discussion?

Yes, Kurt, we have discussed that before and it's difficult to tell on the sides, but the arched backs have painstakingly matched grain which leads people to think it's one piece of wood, but they did an amazing job of lining up the veneers so the inside and outside look the same. Could be similar on the sides, or it could be just solid maple that's bent. I guess it varies from guitar to guitar and year to year, at least that's what I'm getting. But yeah, we've discussed that before for sure!!

 

[GGJaguar]

I guess it varies from guitar to guitar and year to year, at least that's what I'm getting.

This makes sense. My Corona F412 did not have a matching interior back veneer. Just plain maple. Neither does my Oxnard F412. The ones that I have seen that match were mainly from the 1970s.

 

[GGJaguar]

I wrote to CMG and they confirmed that the back (as we know) as well as the sides (new info) on the current F512 Maple (aka F412) is laminated. Heck, maybe all F412s had laminated sides.

 

[Budha]

I have looked closely at the sides of 1990 JF30-12. I do not have a trained eye. I can not see any similarity in the grain of inside vs outside of the maple sides.

 

[bobouz]

This is very interesting info. All three of my archbacks have solid sides: 1974 F-40, 1976 G-37, and 1994 JF-30.

Seems like laminated sides are more prevalent on the 12-string models.