Guild D-40 Richie Havens - Tacoma - sunburst?

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Hi I have only seen this model in natural or black, but then I saw this one: https://richtonemusic.co.uk/guild-d40-richie-havens-hard-case-2nd-hand/. I wonder if its been re-finished?

I have heard mixed opinions about these Tacoma D-40's, but decided to risk it as they dont often come up in the UK, and its a 14 day return policy. If I like it it will save me £800 on the Martin I was eyeing up.
 

Cougar

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Gee, looks nice! Could be good!

And welcome to LTG!
 

Wilmywood

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Looks like it's gone already says out of stock, hope Tallyrand got it
 

richardp69

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Still searching for one in Black. Don't see them often and when you do they tend to be out of my price range.
 

Guilderland21

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In terms of the finish, I took a look at the catalogs and price lists on GAD's site. Most of them only showed natural and black finishes for this model, but the July 2006 price list also shows iced tea burst. Which is not how I'd describe the burst on this one, but maybe they also made some in an antique burst at some point?
 

adorshki

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Hi I have only seen this model in natural or black, but then I saw this one: https://richtonemusic.co.uk/guild-d40-richie-havens-hard-case-2nd-hand/. I wonder if its been re-finished?

I have heard mixed opinions about these Tacoma D-40's, but decided to risk it as they dont often come up in the UK, and its a 14 day return policy. If I like it it will save me £800 on the Martin I was eyeing up.
Hi Talleyrand: I'm willing to bet that's actually a D40 Bluegrass Jubilee, meaning it's got an adirondack top, and that someone added that Richie Havens signature truss rod cover. Unfortunately that and the dual pickguards are the only unique features of a Havens Signature. Those were shipped with the 2nd 'guard unmounted for the owner to install at their discretion. Some owners didn't mount them, so it should accompany the guitar or else it's not "complete". I'm willing to bet there's no sign of it, even though technically it could be "lost".
And finally as somebody noted, those were ever only offered in Natural and Black.
In terms of the finish, I took a look at the catalogs and price lists on GAD's site. Most of them only showed natural and black finishes for this model, but the July 2006 price list also shows iced tea burst. Which is not how I'd describe the burst on this one, but maybe they also made some in an antique burst at some point?
I'm very very sure that's a catalog error. (It's a known phenomenon) Could be wrong, but never seen one in Iced Tea Burst which was quite a bit lighter, and why do that for one quarter and then go back to the 2 "standard" colors?

The thing to do is check to see if that top is Adi or not, that'll tell the tale.
 
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Thanks for the quick replies everyone, seems like there is something wrong with this model in a burst finish as I suspected, but I will check it out as I can return. Adorshki - how can I tell if its sitka or adi?
 

adorshki

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Thanks for the quick replies everyone, seems like there is something wrong with this model in a burst finish as I suspected, but I will check it out as I can return. Adorshki - how can I tell if its sitka or adi?
Ah, there-in lies the rub. It's said IIRC that adi shows coarser grain, possibly more closely spaced. Talking about the parallel pattern as opposed to the cross-grain silking.

That top does appear to be a bit more "coarse" (not in a negative sense) than sitka, but photos are a very poor method of identification in this case.

IIRC I've also seen Tacomas clearly labeled "Bluegrass Jubilee" but seem to recall they weren't consistent.

Gonna invite others to lend opinions like @twocorgis who had an adi-topped New Hartford for a while IIRC, but couldn't bond with it.

Either way it's likely to be a fine piece, each top has its virtues and there's fans of each. Adi's said to take longer than sitka to "break in" because it's a bit stronger than sitka by weight. This also is supposed to enable a bit more volume before the top begins to "flutter" (I'm forgetting the technical term at the moment), but basically more "headroom" at volume. Thus the Bluegrass application.

On the other hand Havens certainly had no problem extracting maximum "voice" from sitka tops, which is supposed to sound a bit warmer.
Also note Guild never put adi tops on its flagship guitars, the D55 and the F50. I like to say "read between those lines" ;)

Final note my own '03 Havens Signature has an AA sitka top which is actually now my favorite of all 3 for sheer silking beauty and the other 2 are a "Standard top" on the D25 which has a honey-red stripe down the center from aging, and a AAA top on the F65ce which I call "white bread" because it's so homogenous.

But I'm certainly curious to hear a good Bluegrass Jubilee with an adi top. I've just never had the opportunity (in person).

In any case i'm sure it'd be nice to be sure of exactly what you have. I suspect the folks at the music store may also be able to render advice. Although they may be reluctant to admit if they did misidentify it, due to the TRC, that's understandable, given the paucity of info available to ID it. Think each model's about the same value-wise, but the Bluegrass models got a lot of attention for their tops.
And it IS an Antique Burst which was standard and VERY common for Tacoma Bluegrass Jubilees.

If you mention the possibility for confusion mentioned here they may give the question a bit more credibility. ;)

Final possibility might be our guru @hansmoust. He's got lots of records, but don't recall him mentioning Tacoma records before. But if Tacoma actually ID'd the different '40's by s/n, he may know for sure.

BTW that "Iced Tea Burst" is one of my faves and very uncommon. Would actually be kind of pleased if it did actually get used on some Havens'. ;)
 
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adorshki

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In terms of the finish, I took a look at the catalogs and price lists on GAD's site. Most of them only showed natural and black finishes for this model, but the July 2006 price list also shows iced tea burst. Which is not how I'd describe the burst on this one, but maybe they also made some in an antique burst at some point?
BTW, forgot to mention, kudos for digging into those archives, didn't mean to sound dismissive. There's actually a wealth of info there. Some of the errors are actually pretty funny, too.

Also you brought up an actual catalog ref I was unaware of and I'm very curious to see if it was actually correct or not. For that I thank you. ;)
 

Guilderland21

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IIRC I've also seen Tacomas clearly labeled "Bluegrass Jubilee" but seem to recall they weren't consistent.
There are definitely some where "Bluegrass Jubilee" is written at the end of the model number on the label, such as this one. No idea how consistent they may have been.
 

adorshki

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There are definitely some where "Bluegrass Jubilee" is written at the end of the model number on the label, such as this one. No idea how consistent they may have been.
Over time you'll see one of Guild's most consistent traits was inconsistency. :LOL:

Took me a while to get used to it but I kinda dig it now. Just gotta remember to "never say never" when it comes to Guild. With maybe a few exceptions...:LOL:
 

chazmo

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. . . seems like there is something wrong with this model in a burst finish as I suspected, but I will check it out as I can return. ...
Tallyrand, the guitar in that ad's picture certainly looks like it has a Sitka spruce top (not red spruce). I'm not seeing any reason to suspect it's not as advertised -- a Richie Havens D-40. It's a 2005 build from Tacoma. The Richie Havens connection isn't noted on the label, but that's the TRC that came with it.

That's a pretty burst. I think that's the antique burst, but the iced tea burst is also in the Tacoma catalog.
 

twocorgis

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Tallyrand, the guitar in that ad's picture certainly looks like it has a Sitka spruce top (not red spruce). I'm not seeing any reason to suspect it's not as advertised -- a Richie Havens D-40. It's a 2005 build from Tacoma. The Richie Havens connection isn't noted on the label, but that's the TRC that came with it.

That's a pretty burst. I think that's the antique burst, but the iced tea burst is also in the Tacoma catalog.
I concur with @chazmo. That looks like a sitka top to me. I'll go with the theory that somebody slapped a Richie Haven truss rod cover on a "standard" D40, but I'm not sure that any D40s left the Tacoma plant with anything other than an Adirondack top. I'm not a real expert on the tacoma era, though. Regardless of what kind of top it has, it has the potential to be a very nice guitar anyway.
 

chazmo

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Pretty sure it's Sitka, Tally... And I don't think there's anything to worry about. I think there was only the Havens as the Sitka-topped "Traditional" D-40 at the time, and that's what this is. This was first-year Tacoma, so catalog might've been a little off.

Beautiful guitar. You'd surely be one of the few with a D-40 'burst from that era.
 

adorshki

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I concur with @chazmo. That looks like a sitka top to me. I'll go with the theory that somebody slapped a Richie Haven truss rod cover on a "standard" D40, but I'm not sure that any D40s left the Tacoma plant with anything other than an Adirondack top. I'm not a real expert on the tacoma era, though. Regardless of what kind of top it has, it has the potential to be a very nice guitar anyway.
Tacoma Havens D40's had Sitka tops. Only the Bluegrass Jubilees got adi. Havens's were always sitka by definition.
And it IS an Antique Burst which was standard and VERY common for Tacoma Bluegrass Jubilees.
 
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twocorgis

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Tacoma Havens D40's had Sitka tops. Only the Bluegrass Jubilees got adi. Havens's were always sitka by definition.
And it IS an Antique Burst which was standard and VERY common for Tacoma Bluegrass Jubilees
Well, I learned something new today. How about that!
 

adorshki

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Should be with me tomorrow - so I will see if its any good, Sitka or Adirondeck! Thanks all, I'll let you know what I make of it
Cool! Also, earlier I implied it looked like the Iced Tea Burst I like so much but yours definitely looks like the Antique Burst in the photos. The edges are so dark. Another reason I suspect it's a Bluegrass, but I've been surprised before. ;)

Keep us posted!
 

chazmo

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Tally, I forgot to mention that the truss rod cover is accurate/correct for that model. I have no doubts that you're looking at the real thing from Tacoma. Should be a winner!
 
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Hi, well it arrived today. First impression - its had a life! Lots of minor scratches, scrapes, little marks that didnt show up on the photos, but no serious damage.A bit a fret wear at the first fret. But it is nearly 20 years old, I suppose. Anyway how did it sound? - great, I'm mean really good. I much prefer it to the Martins I played in the local shop - it seems more even across bass, middle and treble, certainly nicer for fingerpicking. Playability ?- I think the Martin's necks were a little better for me, but not by much. After 2 hours playing with it tonight I think I'm converted to Guild, could be the start of a collection! But I will sleep on it and see if I feel the same tomorrow. I always though buying form a local store was best , but its actually quite good to have a few days to try out a guitar knowing you can return it. Thanks for all your helpful comments.
 
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