GAD's Are They Considered "Real" Guild Guitars?

[Bing k]

Re: GAD's Are They Concidered "Real" Guild Guitars?

...or nude mud-wrestling...somesuch bloodthirsty behaviour... :lol:

How about we hire two attractive female nude mud wrestlers and we can watch them settle the issue.

Jim

Now that sounds like a good idea :twisted:

Get's my vote.

 

[Scratch]

Re: GAD's Are They Concidered "Real" Guild Guitars?

...or nude mud-wrestling...somesuch bloodthirsty behaviour... :lol:

How about we hire two attractive female nude mud wrestlers and we can watch them settle the issue.

Jim

Now that sounds like a good idea :twisted:

We could save some bucks by having the match in Bejing!! :?

 

[Firebird]

Re: GAD's Are They Concidered "Real" Guild Guitars?

Let's stay on track here. Taylor Martin Guild's original comments were that his GAD JF-48 was a very nice instrument with good playability. He posed the question to the group if you thought the GAD guitars were legitimate Guild guitars. The question I think, was NOT intended to generate commentary on the build quality of a GAD Guilds versus American Guilds. I am sure The Guild Guitar Company set out to design and build the best Chinese guitar on the planet. I am sure they put their name on the headstock to increase sales. But are the GAD Guilds "real" Guilds? I say no only because they do not have the classic Guild signature tone that's so clearly evident across the entire American product line.

Would I ever own one? Sure! In fact that JF-48 looks pretty nice. Guild should release an American F50 in mahagony.

 

[capnjuan]

Re: GAD's Are They Concidered "Real" Guild Guitars?

We could save some bucks by having the match in Bejing!! :?

Chinese aquatic dancers - love those smiles; maybe these ladies could do some mud wrasslin' ... in unison!

 

[fronobulax]

But are the GAD Guilds "real" Guilds? I say no only because they do not have the classic Guild signature tone that's so clearly evident across the entire American product line.

So are we now defining a real Guild acoustic guitar as one that has the "signature tone"? I so then the question is a non-issue because I think everyone agrees that GADs, while they may sound good, do not sound like American made Guilds of any era. By the same definition I believe there are those who would say that some of the contemporary American made guitars are also "not Guilds".

I should probably just stick to electric basses

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

In somewhat answering my own question, in a few years, most people will know about GAD Guild Guitars. At that time, when I tell someone that I own a Guild guitar, the next question will be, Is it an American Guild or a GAD?
How do you answer this question?
The two will always be seperated into two different guitar groups, whether we GAD owners like it or not.
I supose that I will be justifying my guitar for as long as I own it.

 

[Jahn]

I wouldn't worry about it. Folks even now make distinctions between NY/Hoboken/Westerly/Corona/Tacoma, and we're still talkin' the US ones. But it's all in the family.

And honestly, if a DeArmond Bajo Jet can be considered to be part of the Guild family (albeit in the "Crazy Uncle" category), I think GADs are pretty safe.

 

[Carol]

I don't think you should have to justify anything. If you love your guitar, you love it. I have a Jay Turser 12-string -- made in KOREA -- and it easy to play and has a wonderful tone. I'm not going to justify that to anyone!

But yes, there will be a distinction for collectors... And someday there will be a forum online for GAD collectors... and they'll be as snooty as we are -- for love of their instruments!!

 

[capnjuan]

In somewhat answering my own question, in a few years, most people will know about GAD Guild Guitars. At that time, when I tell someone that I own a Guild guitar, the next question will be, Is it an American Guild or a GAD? How do you answer this question? The two will always be seperated into two different guitar groups, whether we GAD owners like it or not. I supose that I will be justifying my guitar for as long as I own it.

Hi TMG; I was never very sure where you were going with this in the beginning but if you drew an analogy between say BMWs and Guilds, if you bought a 328/GAD, you didn't get as much car as you would have if you'd bought, say, a 750li/F50R instead. You may be unhappy that you couldn't afford 'more guitar' but don't take it out on the guitar; you got your money's worth and that counts for plenty.

Carol's right; one day FMI may crash and burn and there won't be anymore Guilds or GADs. At that point, you and every other GAD owner will yucking it up here and elsewhere about how crazy you are about 'dem GADs. In the meantime, wish you had more / better / gooder? Welcome to the club. cj

 

[Scratch]

In somewhat answering my own question, in a few years, most people will know about GAD Guild Guitars. At that time, when I tell someone that I own a Guild guitar, the next question will be, Is it an American Guild or a GAD? How do you answer this question? The two will always be seperated into two different guitar groups, whether we GAD owners like it or not. I supose that I will be justifying my guitar for as long as I own it.

Hi TMG; I was never very sure where you were going with this in the beginning but if you drew an analogy between say BMWs and Guilds, if you bought a 328/GAD, you didn't get as much car as you would have if you'd bought, say, a 750li/F50R instead. You may be unhappy that you couldn't afford 'more guitar' but don't take it out on the guitar; you got your money's worth and that counts for plenty.

Carol's right; one day FMI may crash and burn and there won't be anymore Guilds or GADs. At that point, you and every other GAD owner will yucking it up here and elsewhere about how crazy you are about 'dem GADs. In the meantime, wish you had more / better / gooder? Welcome to the club. cj

I'm still waiting for my (Gibson) Epiphone club and Yamaha club to affect appreciation. Owners clubs similar to Guild's Madiera line:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MADEIRA-A1-BY-GUILD ... dZViewItem

http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guit ... s/46.shtml
:?

 

[steverok]

Re: GAD's Are They Concidered "Real" Guild Guitars?

You can talk all you want about build quality, Guild specs, yadda-yadda. What the GAD Guilds don't have is the corporate Guild tone that EVERY American Guild has, new or old. That is, when you pick up a real Guild and strum it, you immediately know its a GUILD guitar and not some other brand. A Martin sounds like a Martin and a Taylor sounds like a Taylor across the entire product line. Sure, a mahagony D40 sounds different than a maple F50, but they both sound like a GUILD and not something else. The GAD guitars, as nice as they may sound, do NOT sound like a GUILD and therefore in my book cannot hold the same status as any American made Guild, old or new.

How do you quantify or prove something like this ? You're telling me the Tacoma's sound just like the old ones, but the GADs don't ? What store did you try this at, so I can know too ? Honestly, I'm dying to know what a real Guild is supposed to sound like. They don't have any where I live.

 

[Westerly Wood]

i think the only way to find out is to buy one and prove it to yourself....that is what i might do very soon. tonite, i am gonna go play a GAD D-50....just to see... :mrgreen:

 

[Metalman]

Re: GAD's Are They Concidered "Real" Guild Guitars?

You can talk all you want about build quality, Guild specs, yadda-yadda. What the GAD Guilds don't have is the corporate Guild tone that EVERY American Guild has, new or old. That is, when you pick up a real Guild and strum it, you immediately know its a GUILD guitar and not some other brand. A Martin sounds like a Martin and a Taylor sounds like a Taylor across the entire product line. Sure, a mahagony D40 sounds different than a maple F50, but they both sound like a GUILD and not something else. The GAD guitars, as nice as they may sound, do NOT sound like a GUILD and therefore in my book cannot hold the same status as any American made Guild, old or new.

You could say the same thing about the new "contemporary" Guilds out of Tacoma. They sound great, but do not sound like the traditional Guilds, nor are they supposed to. The GADs sound great, are a great bang for the buck, whether on not they sound like a Guild (and I don't think they do).
My main gripe with the GADs is that they put all this good quality wood and craftsmanship into these guitars, and then put this "poly-something" finish on them. Spend another $50 bucks or so, raise the price the same amount, and put a lacquer finish on the instruments. It would make a big difference in the sound, and still give the customer a great deal for their money.

It also boils down to what you can afford, what sounds good to you, and what makes you inspired to play music. I played a couple of the new F-20s in Matt Umanov the other day. For what it was, it was a nice little puppy. Loud, very midrange - ish, lightweight.
And then I played a very nicely setup F-30. Big difference in sound, but also $1000 more. Almost.
There is going to be a lot of dust kicked a lot over this issue, but it comes down to like I said, what sounds good to you, what you can afford, etc.

 

[capnjuan]

Re: GAD's Are They Concidered "Real" Guild Guitars?

You can talk all you want about build quality, Guild specs, yadda-yadda. What the GAD Guilds don't have is the corporate Guild tone that EVERY American Guild has, new or old. That is, when you pick up a real Guild and strum it, you immediately know its a GUILD guitar and not some other brand. A Martin sounds like a Martin and a Taylor sounds like a Taylor across the entire product line. Sure, a mahagony D40 sounds different than a maple F50, but they both sound like a GUILD and not something else. The GAD guitars, as nice as they may sound, do NOT sound like a GUILD and therefore in my book cannot hold the same status as any American made Guild, old or new.

How do you quantify or prove something like this ? You're telling me the Tacoma's sound just like the old ones, but the GADs don't ? What store did you try this at, so I can know too ? Honestly, I'm dying to know what a real Guild is supposed to sound like. They don't have any where I live.

Hi Steve: link from the Guild webpage to Guild dealers in FL Look for Guilds Here To make matters worse, there are almost no Craigslisted Guilds in FL. The number of in-the-store Guilds varies from store to store; Real Guitars in Ft Myers has one or two, others have many, some just have a Guild catalog and place orders .... like buying auto parts or something.

You're right; at the end of the day, quantifying what isn't much more than a preference, or possibly a prejudice, isn't possible. Alot of people here have run through a lot of money buying and selling guitars and alot of their time playing their instruments and those of others. Having done so, they've acquired the certainty that comes with knowing that they prefer cheddar cheese to swiss.

If you've got a GAD, my suggestion would be to call around to one of the listed Guild dealers and drag your GAD along and A/B it against whatever they have; I mean, see for yourself if you can tell a difference but if you want to know whether there's a difference or not, listening to BBers rave on about the perceived virtues of their instruments will get you nowhere. Alternatively PM me, grab your GAD, pick up a 750 mil bottle of Stoly, and drive up here and try the stuff in my siggie against your GAD. Who knows ....

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Metalman, would you expound more about the finish on the GAD's?
What finish is better than another etc?
What little I know about guitar finishes is that I have an L20A Yamaha that was hand crafted and far and above better made than other Yamaha production guitar ever built.
I use a Kyser capo with it, and it had discolored the head where the capo rests when not being used on the frets.
I use the kyser capos because of how you can keep them clamped on your guitar's head when not in use.
I don't have this problem with my Martin D-35 which must have a different finish on it.
My wife's Taylor has a satin finish and it has no issues with the
Kyser.
You have stated that the finish on my GAD JF48 is not allowing the sound to be as good as it could be, and like you said, why does Guild use this finish, if it isn't as good for the guitar?
Do you think that the GAD will also have a reaction to the capo?
I haven't tried a Kyser on the GAD for fear of a reaction.

Thanks, TMG.

 

[bluegrass jubilee]

I use a shubb capo on my GAD and haven't had any problems. But I imagine it would have to do with the specific lot of mahogany the necks are made out of.

As far as finishes go, this article talks about the advantages of NCL nicely

http://adsl-76-247-117-65.dsl.pltn13.sb ... pfill.html

Also, NCL tends to breath better and move with the growth and shrinkage of an acoustic better than Poly does.

I think it's an important distinction for GAD's to be finished in Poly, as they are at a lower price point than a D40 or D55 is. If you start giving those guitars too many little nice touches, you essentally obselete your need for US manfuacturing of any kind. It's always good for larger company to have a 'good, better, and best' line.

 

[Mark WW]

My GAD's sound better than the Gibson's,Takamine,US Guild's (I have played-I know controversial),Fender's,Seagull's,Martin's,etc.

They play well and sound good and again are thereal Guild's - Yes they are. Is a Toyota made in US a "Real Toyota". We are in a global economy and need to get past where things are made - unless they are crap.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I personally won't get past where things are made.
Made in America once meant something.
American made guitars are the best there is in my opinion.
Yes we do live in a global economy and many American companies have sold out.
In order to compete with the global market, many of these companies have sent at least part of it's manufacturing overseas.
Guild is no different.
My point is that these guitars cost less and will be worth less than their American counterparts.
I own a GAD and for the money, I have a great guitar, but it will never hold the esteem that an American Guild does.
In order to market the GAD's , Guild chose to put their name on them.
Let's face it, if these guitars had any other name on them, they would be harder to sale and would sell for a lower price.
There will always be a seperation between GADs and American Guilds, as there should be.
That doesn't mean that GAD's are not great guitars, they simply are not American made Guild guitars.
I also think that the new Guilds will never be the guitars that the older Guilds were, before the company changed hands.
That pride and craftsmanship stayed in Westerly.

 

[Metalman]

Metalman, would you expound more about the finish on the GAD's?
What finish is better than another etc?
What little I know about guitar finishes is that I have an L20A Yamaha that was hand crafted and far and above better made than other Yamaha production guitar ever built.
I use a Kyser capo with it, and it had discolored the head where the capo rests when not being used on the frets.
I use the kyser capos because of how you can keep them clamped on your guitar's head when not in use.
I don't have this problem with my Martin D-35 which must have a different finish on it.
My wife's Taylor has a satin finish and it has no issues with the
Kyser.
You have stated that the finish on my GAD JF48 is not allowing the sound to be as good as it could be, and like you said, why does Guild use this finish, if it isn't as good for the guitar?
Do you think that the GAD will also have a reaction to the capo?
I haven't tried a Kyser on the GAD for fear of a reaction.

Thanks, TMG.

I know a lot more about wood than I do about finishes, but this is what I was told by a salesman at Matt Umanov, who is a veteran of selling top notch acoustic guitars. The cheaper poly urithane finish is more of a plastic finish, and although it is stronger, and will protect the guitar longer, it prevents the guitar from vibrating properly, thereby not letting the guitar such as your GAD breath as much as it wants, or sounding the best it can sound, even though it has been made with top notch quality woods. It is a very inexpensive method of finishing a guitar.
Lacquer finishes are more expensive, and allow the wood to breath. One of the main reasons Stradivarius's sound so great is the type of finish that was used on the instrument, and the person who did the work, well, the secret died with him, and no one has been able to replicate the formula, and therefore, no other violin will ever sound like that again.


What would happen if your guitar - GAD or Tacoma-built - had NO finish on it at all? Would it be the almost perfect sounding guitar???? Who can say?

Some one else had a good point: Guild has to keep prices down on these instruments, other wise the pricing would be right up there with the American made guitars. Give the public a choice: good (GADs), better (traditional Guilds made at the new factory), and best (the contemporary models, like the Willie Porter guitars).
If you have a GAD, you have a good sounding, well built guitar. I almost plunked down $800 for the cutaway F-30 PCE guitar, with the cutaway, and padouk back and sides. A pretty guitar, and much louder than my favorite Martin: a 000-28. Then I realized what I really wanted was an old F-30, so I am holding out for one to come along.
This issue about finishes is not over; I am going to study more about it. I didn't realize before now just how much of an importance it has in the building of a good quality guitar.

 

[Tim]

I’d like to think there’s more artisanship to crafting a guitar than an automobile rolling down the assembly line.

There is more to Guild than just its “specs”. Their real asset lies in its employee’s, and in their experience.

Would you want to buy a sculpture built by a sculptor with 2 years of experience or 20?