Factory installed strap button on NH Guilds

[Terry Allan Hall]

Wow, you really do hate Fender don't you. I don't think that Fender has anything to do with the strap button location. I'm pretty sure it was a Guild decision. I would find it hard to believe that exec's from fender are calling up Chris and telling him where to locate strap buttons!

Maybe you need to attend a LMG to get a better feel for the relationship between Fender and Guild.

Not, you're absolutely wrong. Huge fan of Leo Fender's Telecaster and P-bass, enough to own 3 Teles and two P-basses. And, I'm aware of how parent corporations dictate small changes in satelite companie's policies, to minimize after-market corporate expenses, such as warranty work, thus maximizing corporate profits...in the Real World, that has long been a priority.

Fender has never been able to make an acoustic guitar of the quality of a Guild, Martin or Gibson, which is why they bought Guild and Tacoma, just as they bought guitars from other companies (including Harmony, in the 60s) and put their name of them. And what are the modern results? They've killed Tacoma and Fenderized Guild by, among other things, removing the minor expense of allowing the new owner the decision of where to place the strap button...but, do you think that's the only change, to enhance corporate profitability, Fender has made?

Do you really think Fender doesn't dictate to Guild how to shave costs, in after-service expenses, like compensating dealers for such small customer-related issues?

Why do you think Fender, which owns Guild, doesn't just put a strap button in the case, w/ the warrantly card, truss-rod wrench and other case swag, and let the new owner decide where, or if, he/she wants the strap button installed?

 

[chazmo]

Wow, you really do hate Fender don't you. I don't think that Fender has anything to do with the strap button location. I'm pretty sure it was a Guild decision. I would find it hard to believe that exec's from fender are calling up Chris and telling him where to locate strap buttons!

Maybe you need to attend a LMG to get a better feel for the relationship between Fender and Guild.

I recommend that for *any* LTG folks who are feeling resentful or angry about the current state of Guild. I know Terry is not at all unique in that point of view. I consider it my mission to help LTGers remain informed and active participants in the future of this great guitar company. Since Guild moved to New Hartford, that opportunity exists, folks. Perhaps many don't care about that, and I have no response to that. But it's important to note that your voice can be heard today whereas it was not in the past -- and I'm talking about the entire history of the company, by the way.

And, Terry, Fender acoustics are being influenced by New Hartford. Might be something to consider.

But, specifically, Terry... this location of the strap button is not a "fixed" thing in time. Guild *has* seen our feedback on this and it's something that's evolved over time.

My final comment on this is that a hole (and block) on the bass side is far more difficult to conceal than a pilot hole on the treble side of the heel, should you choose to abandon what the factory did. And, regarding deal-breaker... when I had an opportunity to buy a limited-edition Ibanez (AW-120), it had a button poking out from the back side of the heel. I HATE that someone put the button here, but I have left it in place. Because there are only a handful of these in existence, it did not stop me from buying one. If there were hundreds of them, as is the case with most Guilds, it might've.

 

[SFIV1967]

Why do you think Fender, which owns Guild, doesn't just put a strap button in the case, ..., and let the new owner decide where, or if, he/she wants the strap button installed?

I would say because they are smart and don't want to see complaints of users after they damaged their guitar...
Does any Guitar company do that??? I doubt. Many users are not even capable to install it correctly and you can do a lot of damage to a heel of a neck if you hit the wrong spot. I think the risk for a guitar manufacturer would be way to big.
Or does Martin, Taylor, or others supply the strap button in the case? My 2 Martins came without any, not even one in the case. The Taylor I have has one pre-installed in the heel of the neck. It depends on the actual neck to body construction if you can use it for a strap button. The Martin Mortise and Tenon neck joint for instance is pretty tricky for strap button installment. Some luthiers refuse to install it in the heel on such models.
Ralf

 

[killdeer43]

As it is with most things, it's a matter of balance. :wink:

D25

Joe

 

[fronobulax]

Why do you think Fender, which owns Guild, doesn't just put a strap button in the case, w/ the warrantly card, truss-rod wrench and other case swag, and let the new owner decide where, or if, he/she wants the strap button installed?

Apologies if I am answering a rhetorical question.

There seem to be at least two types of people who buy guitars - people who think nothing about drilling a hole in their brand new guitar themselves and people who are scared to do that. Your solution is perfect for the first group. If they don't want a strap button then they don't have it. If they want it they just fire up the old drill and put it where they want it. And if they screw that up then it is their own darn fault and they accept responsibility for the mistake.

Consider the other group. If they don't want a button then no problem. Your solution works for them. But if they do want a button then they have to go and find someone they trust to drill a hole in their brand new guitar and probably pay them something. They would certainly feel justified in feeling a little ripped off about having to pay more. They would also worry just a bit about what happens if their trusted tech screws up. Who pays and is a repaired new guitar truly the same as a new one? (A point, incidentally that applies to folks who buy a new guitar and remove the button as well).

So it is pretty clear that no solution will satisfy both groups and no matter what choice is made someone will be unhappy.

In is clearly costing Guild something to add a strap button when they do so. It might not be much - the cost of the button, the cost of cutting the anchor block, the time to glue it in place and the time to drill the hole - but it costs them something. So if the Evil Bean Counters at Fender are really pulling the strings of the Guild Brand Manager Puppets, wouldn't it make sense that the puppets would adopt the lowest cost solution? Since they haven't maybe, just maybe, there are more people buying guitars who want a strap button than there are people sitting on the sidelines and taking their money elsewhere because of the button?

Since Guild is still in the "we build it, you buy it" stage and not handling custom orders, the real solution to all this would be (as several folks have suggested) to offer the buyer the option of having a button installed, or not, and, if installed, where. But those days have yet to come, although they seem to be coming.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Why do you think Fender, which owns Guild, doesn't just put a strap button in the case, w/ the warrantly card, truss-rod wrench and other case swag, and let the new owner decide where, or if, he/she wants the strap button installed?

Apologies if I am answering a rhetorical question.

There seem to be at least two types of people who buy guitars - people who think nothing about drilling a hole in their brand new guitar themselves and people who are scared to do that. Your solution is perfect for the first group. If they don't want a strap button then they don't have it. If they want it they just fire up the old drill and put it where they want it. And if they screw that up then it is their own darn fault and they accept responsibility for the mistake.

Consider the other group. If they don't want a button then no problem. Your solution works for them. But if they do want a button then they have to go and find someone they trust to drill a hole in their brand new guitar and probably pay them something. They would certainly feel justified in feeling a little ripped off about having to pay more. They would also worry just a bit about what happens if their trusted tech screws up. Who pays and is a repaired new guitar truly the same as a new one? (A point, incidentally that applies to folks who buy a new guitar and remove the button as well).

So it is pretty clear that no solution will satisfy both groups and no matter what choice is made someone will be unhappy.

In is clearly costing Guild something to add a strap button when they do so. It might not be much - the cost of the button, the cost of cutting the anchor block, the time to glue it in place and the time to drill the hole - but it costs them something. So if the Evil Bean Counters at Fender are really pulling the strings of the Guild Brand Manager Puppets, wouldn't it make sense that the puppets would adopt the lowest cost solution? Since they haven't maybe, just maybe, there are more people buying guitars who want a strap button than there are people sitting on the sidelines and taking their money elsewhere because of the button?

Since Guild is still in the "we build it, you buy it" stage and not handling custom orders, the real solution to all this would be (as several folks have suggested) to offer the buyer the option of having a button installed, or not, and, if installed, where. But those days have yet to come, although they seem to be coming.

Over the years, I've been a repairman at a few guitar shops, and I know that, of the instruments we were factory-authorized to work on, the customer, at the time of purchase, could have a button installed for free, at the location of their choosing, and the shop billed the company my fee (at that time, $5-10, depending on the situation) and then added that to their arrangement w/ the instrument company...probably padding it a bit, knowing one of my former employers all too well :roll: )...no idea what the same job would've cost the company to do prior to shipping.

I do know that every single customer knew exactly where they wanted that strap button placed, if at all, and only one ever requested that it be placed where Guild/Fender now chooses.

I do hope Guild decides to once again allow the customer to make up his/her own mind about this matter, as there are at least 4 Guilds I'd be buying, if they did.

Otherwise, two of them can be found used, if I look long enough, and the others, I'll either live w/o or have a small builder make for me.

 

[fronobulax]

Over the years, I've been a repairman at a few guitar shops, and I know that, of the instruments we were factory-authorized to work on, the customer, at the time of purchase, could have a button installed for free, at the location of their choosing, and the shop billed the company my fee (at that time, $5-10, depending on the situation) and then added that to their arrangement w/ the instrument company...probably padding it a bit, knowing one of my former employers all too well :roll: )...no idea what the same job would've cost the company to do prior to shipping.

I do know that every single customer knew exactly where they wanted that strap button placed, if at all, and only one ever requested that it be placed where Guild/Fender now chooses.

Observation - if Guild can add the strap button at the factory for less than the $5-$10 (or more, with padding) charged back to them, then they are doing the "cheapest" thing by installing the button at the factory.

Your experience seems quite different than that of people and dealers I have talked to. I've talked to folks who have no idea where they want the strap button and to dealers who strongly discourage customers from installing in particular locations. That said, the dealer recommended location is not where Guild puts it.

Of course, I still don't have a definitive answer to my original question :wink: I'll update it to be "which non-GSR 2012 New Hartford Guilds come with factory installed strap buttons, which don't and what is the source for the answer?" I ask for the source since at one point the Guild website used one picture for all variations of a model even though all variations did not have the strap button, as pictured.

And it raises another question - how do Taylor, Gibson and Martin handle strap buttons on new acoustics? Does the customer have any choices besides take it or leave it?

 

[Ridgemont]

Martin does not add strap buttons to their acoustics or acoustic/electrics. For one Martin I purchased, the dealer offered to install a strap button on the side of the heel for no extra charge. I am not sure if that was dealer specific or a Martin issued service.

 

[Ridgemont]

To add to the statistics, I had a strap button installed locally on a D25. They placed it on the side of the heel for $5.00.

 

[davismanLV]

And it raises another question - how do Taylor, Gibson and Martin handle strap buttons on new acoustics? Does the customer have any choices besides take it or leave it?

Frono I don't know the answers to your other questions, but on my new Taylor it's on the side of the heel. See the picture below. I did not have a choice, that I know of if I wanted THIS guitar. I failed to notice if it was the case with ALL Taylors. However, I'm headed to Guitar Center now and I'll take a look. I was so focused on the SOUND, that I may have failed to fuss about the strap button. Also, it was in the place I like it to be, so it became a non-issue. I guess if I hated where it was and it was intolerable to me, it would have upset me that I couldn't buy this guitar..... because it sounds so good.

Edit: I just returned from Guitar Center to get a duplicate receipt of my purchase (which by the way they can do for up to 7 years from the date of purchase!!) and EVERY new Taylor they had in the place (except an electric) had the strap button in this very location.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

And it raises another question - how do Taylor, Gibson and Martin handle strap buttons on new acoustics? Does the customer have any choices besides take it or leave it?

I own a couple of Gibson J-200s (both bought well used), a Martin D-28 (bought new, and on what apparently is "permenant loan" to my uncle) and two Taylors (one used, one new).

Both J200s had strap buttons when I bought them. Pretty sure the strap buttons were added after the fact.

The Martin: has no strap button to this day (bought it, sight unseen in '88, was going to sell it once I got it, as I didn't like it, but along then my uncle's Gibson J-60 was stolen, so I loaned the D-28 to him, and he's a firm believer in a leather strap tied between the Low E and A and B and High E pegs).

My Taylors: the 1974 655 came with the strap button already installed (no idea if at the company or by the previous owner, who may've been the original owner, as well), and the bought-new 2001 355 I think I installed it, myself (can't remember for sure, though....but it's in the right spot. 8))

Of my Guilds, both JF4s ('91 new, '93 used) came without, both used F-212XLs ('73 and '75) came with, the D-35 (no idea of vintage, as it was very thoroughly refinished, so no serial #, but at least a mid-80s, I've been told) came with. My late '09 GAD JF-48 (a victim of a nasty car wreck) came without.

 

[chazmo]

Terry, you have a '74 Taylor? Can I see a picture?

 

[Jeff]

My Taylor T5, purchased new, came from the factory with three strap pins.

 

[Dadaist]

Terry, you have a '74 Taylor? Can I see a picture?

That's a trick question right? Tell me that's a trick question?

David

 

[davismanLV]

:lol: :lol:

 

[chazmo]

I don't know... Since Taylor has futzed with their web site, I can't find anything anymore, including the timeline they used to have. I thought '74 was too early, but I wasn't sure...

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Terry, you have a '74 Taylor? Can I see a picture?

Sure thing...

Note the "Martinesque" bridge...it came this way from the factory, and I've only seen one other Taylor with this feature. I'm thinking this would be about the time the name changed from American Dream Guitars to Taylor.

 

[SFIV1967]

Terry, you have a '74 Taylor? Can I see a picture?

Sure thing...

Note the "Martinesque" bridge...it came this way from the factory, and I've only seen one other Taylor with this feature. I'm thinking this would be about the time the name changed from American Dream Guitars to Taylor.

:shock: Amazing! Bob Taylor was only 19 or 20 years old in 1974, their first year of existence as Taylor.
http://legacyweb.taylorguitars.com/history/essay.html
I read somewhere else that only 6 guitars were officially made under Taylor in 1974, so your 1974 655 seems be an extremely rare one!
Ralf

 

[micklevanon]

Just to add my 2 cents:

2007 F30 - Strap button installed on the side of the body as in the images above. And yes, the guitar has factory installed electrics.

1991 JF30 - no strap button, no electronics

1991 D15 - Has strap button on the treble side of the heel, and electronics, though neither the electrics or the button look factory installed.

Personally, I like it on the body, I think playing standing up it provides better balance, and I don't think it affects the sound. I think the way you sit with a guitar in your lap has more effect on the sound than anything else. Actually, I think the room in which you play has more effect on the sound than anything else, and if you're plugging in, well all bets are off because there are so many variables. And I know, I'm in the minority here.

my 2 shekels
mick

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Terry, you have a '74 Taylor? Can I see a picture?

Sure thing...

Note the "Martinesque" bridge...it came this way from the factory, and I've only seen one other Taylor with this feature. I'm thinking this would be about the time the name changed from American Dream Guitars to Taylor.

:shock: Amazing! Bob Taylor was only 19 or 20 years old in 1974, their first year of existence as Taylor.
http://legacyweb.taylorguitars.com/history/essay.html
I read somewhere else that only 6 guitars were officially made under Taylor in 1974, so your 1974 655 seems be an extremely rare one!
Ralf

Knew it was a very early model, but assume that w/ 3 guys working there (as I've heard there was in '74), the output would've been higher than a half-dozen...I'd've thought more like 30 or so.

But, truly, I've no facts to back that number up.

And, yes, I understand that Bob Taylor and his two partners were in their very early 20s when they bought out American Dreams Guitars. A bold move that has turned out very well, largely through hard work and a commitment to excellence.