Ensenada DV-4 and DV-6

[chazmo]

This evening, I spent an hour or so in the acoustic room of the music store all by my lonesome. I'll admit straight off that I was in search of one of the new Martin Grand J12-40E Specials (F-512 clone). But, alas, not yet. They still have a leftover Tacoma F-512 on the rack that I really enjoyed playing anyway, but then I saw a couple of unfamiliar Guilds...

Yup, they had two brand-new Ensenadas. My aborted search for the Martin turned out to be an exploration of these two new beasties.

I'll start off by saying that I didn't have USA-built versions of these two axes to do any A/B-ing. I tried to just judge them on their merits/drawbacks.

OK, summary first... The DV-4 is a wonderful-sounding, highly balanced mahogany sweetie. And with a store price of just about $700, I think it's fantastic. It fits the Guild paradigm of sounding and playing like a MUCH more expensive guitar. In fact, this thing is a downright bargain.

The DV-6 on the other hand didn't give me the rosewood punch and depth that I've come to expect. Part of the problem is they also had a leftover Tacoma D-50 and D-55 on the wall, and maybe that's just not a fair comparison. I mean, this thing is around $800... Not even close to the territory of the others. But, oh, how I love that Tacoma D-50... All that said, the DV-6 is not a bad guitar, just not all that special to me. The DV-4 was the unquestionable standout between the two of them.

OK, I'm not done... There are some very clear signs that neither of these is a high-end guitar. Let's start with the crown at the top. The cut was very sloppy and looked like a child had done it with a bandsaw. More likely, the sander was too agressive and made some flat spots in the rounded areas, but you get the picture. Not a lot of care taken in that aspec.

Next, let's discuss the finish. *WHAT* finish??? OK, the bodies are satin, which is fine for what it is, but the neck -- as far as I could tell -- is RAW. Definitely sanded well, and frankly I've always liked a satin-finished neck, but raw wood??... I'm probably wrong, but if there's ANY finish on that neck (and back of headstock) it's gotta be thinner than my wallet! ANyway, it really shows that it's a multi-piece affair.

Another item on these guitars... Someone earlier mentioned that he thought they might be bolt-on necks. I think this is correct. Looking at the neck block through the soundhole there is a square cover with the "Guild" emblem on it. I suspect this covers the bolt, a la Taylor and others. I've got no qualms with bolt-ons, by the way, just something to make note of.

So, despite its flaws, I'd steer someone to a DV-4 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I've played mahogany dreads most of my life, and this one is just great.

I hope the Ensenada folks get some time to clean up the details and work on finish. It's a little ironic since we bitch and moan a bit about how over-glossy the GADs are. The Ensenada DVs are about as raw as you can get.

 

[FNG]

You need to buy that Tacoma D-50. They ain't making any more of them.

 

[fungusyoung]

So, despite its flaws, I'd steer someone to a DV-4 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I've played mahogany dreads most of my life, and this one is just great.

I hope the Ensenada folks get some time to clean up the details and work on finish. It's a little ironic since we bitch and moan a bit about how over-glossy the GADs are. The Ensenada DVs are about as raw as you can get.

Thanks for the review, Chazmo, although you've basically confirmed my worst fears. It's really kind of ironic that you just bumped the old Fender thread earlier because 3 years ago some of us were pining for Guild to develop USA made lower priced alternatives to the D40 & D50. Well, the Tacoma DV4 & DV6 were the answer. And, they are pretty damn good guitars for the $, they just didn't have much of a chance to survive because the first ones to hit the streets came out shortly before the announcements of Tacoma being shut down.

Anyways, I'm very disappointed because they've only further bastardized the Guild name by doing what they've done with these models now. I have a STELLAR Westerly era DV6 that I'll put up against any spruce top & mahogany sides/back dread. But, the DV6 they built in Tacoma was completely different (including rosewood being used on that DV6). Now, they've watered down the newer Tacoma versions of these guitars even more by using bolt-on necks, crappy finishing, etc. :roll: It's just not a good sign at all in spite of how nice the DV4 you played sounded. I've played some really good sounding GAD's too, but they didn't look, sound or feel like Guilds... and they were plagued with QC issues too. Sounds pretty much where we are headed with the DV's now too, which is what I was afraid of.

Bummer.

 

[chazmo]

Those are very good points, Mike. I was trying not to focus on the history.

Indeed, I was trying to get a little bit of the Guild funk out of my system by going to the music store last night (hence the big Martin quest). Those nasty Fender threads definitely brought me down.

I hear you about the DV evolution, and the changes through Tacoma and onward. I think I'll avoid saying much more, though, and simply agree with your last comment. That's clearly where Fender is going with this, at least for the DVs.

 

[Andy Hiwatt]

All very interesting. Thanks Chazmo for your reviews .
All these opinions in different threads in the last days about how badly Fender behaved and still behaves with our beloved Guild brand is really so sad and hard to swallow..they just couldn't do any worse ,I've got pretty angry and upset reading the tales told by former Westerly employees..
Anyway from what Chazmo reports it looks like we have to hang on to what's left of the Tacoma built Guilds,or ,like I always tried to do, the gloriuos Westerly or Hoboken made old babies.
By the way Chazmo: what's the price of that great Tacoma D50 you played in that store??
Sometimes TAcoma D50 show up on E-bay for $1200-1300,is that a fair price for a used new D50???

 

[Dr. Spivey]

Good news, bad news on the Ensenada Guilds. It would have been far more disappointing to hear these guitars looked great and sounded/played bad.

It is important that we post positives and negatives here. When I got back into playing, and went on a quest for a Guild, I landed here. The diversity of the membership, the frank opinions, and camaraderie of LTG told me I had found the best source of information on all things Guild.

Look at the "who's online" on the index page, every time you get on here for a while. Lots of members who rarely or never post, lots of readers. People seeking information. I read here for a few months digging through the old threads, keeping up with the new, before joining. Not a "joiner" by nature, I could see this place was the real deal.

Fender has the capability to do it right, in Ensenada and New Hartford. The low prices on used GADs are a good indicator of their long term success in the marketplace. I'm real frustrated with FMICs progress with Guild, but remain hopeful.

If Fender puts Guild in the tank, we will continue on our journey together. We will play our old guitars, buy, sell and trade, tell stories and jokes. Guild guitars an Guild playin' geezers are hard to kill. It's far from over.

 

[dane]

Good news, bad news on the Ensenada Guilds. It would have been far more disappointing to hear these guitars looked great and sounded/played bad.

It is important that we post positives and negatives here. When I got back into playing, and went on a quest for a Guild, I landed here. The diversity of the membership, the frank opinions, and camaraderie of LTG told me I had found the best source of information on all things Guild.

Look at the "who's online" on the index page, every time you get on here for a while. Lots of members who rarely or never post, lots of readers. People seeking information. I read here for a few months digging through the old threads, keeping up with the new, before joining. Not a "joiner" by nature, I could see this place was the real deal.

Fender has the capability to do it right, in Ensenada and New Hartford. The low prices on used GADs are a good indicator of their long term success in the marketplace. I'm real frustrated with FMICs progress with Guild, but remain hopeful.

If Fender puts Guild in the tank, we will continue on our journey together. We will play our old guitars, buy, sell and trade, tell stories and jokes. Guild guitars an Guild playin' geezers are hard to kill. It's far from over.

+1 on that Dr. Spivey. Very well put.

 

[Scratch]

+2. Well said Dr. S...

 

[chazmo]

In my own case, guys, what brought me here was a chance encounter with a Tacoma F-512, new, at the music store. I hadn't thought about Guild in a dog's age when I was entranced by the siren song of that new guitar in the store 2-3 years ago. I wouldn't have gotten interested in the brand (again) otherwise, and I don't know if I wouldn't have entered a small-time quest to collect 'em either. I have no idea if I'm indicative of typical Guild "new blood" but it's the superior product of Tacoma that is responsible for me being here, ultimately.

 

[count savage]

Chazmo, a little off the topic, but what was your judgment on the D-50 and D-55 when you were at the music store? Did you play them, and how did those two compare? Which did you prefer? Still considering a Tacoma six-string and along with F50 would also look at both D-50 and D 55? What's your take on them?

 

[chazmo]

I never played a Tacoma F-50 (or F-50R), count, so I don't know how that compares to the dreads -- but as you know the Tacoma F-512 is my go-to 12er.

Of course, we're talking personal taste here, but of the two dreads (D-50 and D-55) I personally prefer the Tacoma D-50. I guess it's either something different in the bracing, or it's the Adirondack spruce top... something makes the tone sparkle a bit more (to my ears) in the mids than the D-50. I think it's a real gem. I'd snap it up in a second, but I'm a bit full-up on rosewood dreads right now so it just doesn't make sense for me. I'm interested to see what comes out of New Hartford for a D-50...

 

[fungusyoung]

For what it's worth, the Tacoma built D40's are outstanding guitars. I played a bunch of those during the past couple years, and I didn't come across any bad ones... but the good ones were unreal sounding guitars. I also wondered if it was the Adirondack spruce top.

 

[count savage]

thanks for the tip, fungusyoung....they're probably more in my current price range....I really would be interested in side by side sound comparisons of a bunch of these a la the Larrivee site, which has a link to recordings of basically ALL of their models. For example, how would the Guild F 30 compare to F 50, or to the D 40, or the D 50 or D 55? I'm really interested in pure acoustic sound as opposed to pure style, though, I do love the look of the D 55. and the F 50R.

 

[chazmo]

I just noticed the Guild website main page talks about the DV series. I think this must be relatively recent. Anyway, I thought I'd post it here. http://www.guildguitars.com/

They mention a hand-rubbed satin gel finish. I guess I'm just not used to that kind of thing, particularly on the neck. I wonder how it compares to the HR finishes from Westerly.

As I said earlier, these DVs are really basic instruments to me. I think the word "raw" is a good description, although apparently they are HR finished.

 

[kitniyatran]

Saturday & Monday I tried out an Ensenada DV4 & DV6 at Gatorguild's shop. While they look plain with the satin finish, I thought they both played & sounded good for the money, which was less than the GAD's, though they were at least as good, probably better(sound & play). Also a Tacoma brand jumbo, same finish, priced with the GAD's, played & sounded good. None will tempt me to give up my D25, though.
I said, if this is what they're doing in Mexico, they don't need the Asian GAD's.

 

[zplay]

I just noticed the Guild website main page talks about the DV series. I think this must be relatively recent. Anyway, I thought I'd post it here. http://www.guildguitars.com/

They mention a hand-rubbed satin gel finish. I guess I'm just not used to that kind of thing, particularly on the neck. I wonder how it compares to the HR finishes from Westerly.

As I said earlier, these DVs are really basic instruments to me. I think the word "raw" is a good description, although apparently they are HR finished.

I love my Tacoma-made DV-4. Still has the satin finish all over, which is pure heaven IMHO on the neck and advantageous on the body as well, I beleve. The neck on that thing - carve and finish -is the most comfortable of any guitar I've played. Love the balanced, responsive tone - great with either pick or fingers. Not that much of a looker, but if they're doing it about the same in Ensenada, then Guild has a good thing going.

 

[Bobby McGee]

For what it's worth, the Tacoma built D40's are outstanding guitars. I played a bunch of those during the past couple years, and I didn't come across any bad ones... but the good ones were unreal sounding guitars. I also wondered if it was the Adirondack spruce top.

I agree with the Tacoma D40. I played one a few weeks back at a local shop and I could not put it down for over an hour. What an inspiring piece of wood. I almost had to make a trip to the Green Machine... :roll:

Bobby.

 

[DWdrummer67]

Ensenada DV-6

Thanks for the review, Chazmo, although you've basically confirmed my worst fears. It's really kind of ironic that you just bumped the old Fender thread earlier because 3 years ago some of us were pining for Guild to develop USA made lower priced alternatives to the D40 & D50. Well, the Tacoma DV4 & DV6 were the answer. And, they are pretty damn good guitars for the $, they just didn't have much of a chance to survive because the first ones to hit the streets came out shortly before the announcements of Tacoma being shut down.

Anyways, I'm very disappointed because they've only further bastardized the Guild name by doing what they've done with these models now. I have a STELLAR Westerly era DV6 that I'll put up against any spruce top & mahogany sides/back dread. But, the DV6 they built in Tacoma was completely different (including rosewood being used on that DV6). Now, they've watered down the newer Tacoma versions of these guitars even more by using bolt-on necks, crappy finishing, etc. :roll: It's just not a good sign at all in spite of how nice the DV4 you played sounded. I've played some really good sounding GAD's too, but they didn't look, sound or feel like Guilds... and they were plagued with QC issues too. Sounds pretty much where we are headed with the DV's now too, which is what I was afraid of.

Bummer.

I actually went to a very reputable dealer here in Michigan (Elderly Instruments) and purchased a DV-6 in 2010. I got the DV-6 instead of the DV-4, because of the sound quality. The DV-6 was warmer and projected better. It's an Ensenada build, and regardless of what some people are saying about quality... I found it very impressive, and just what I was looking for. The fretboard to neck transition (where binding would typically go) offers nice rounded edges, and is wonderfully comfortable.

I played everything at Elderly, from a cheap Martin to a six thousand dollar Huss and Dalton. In my opinion... outside of that H&D... this was the nicest playing and sounding guitar in the bunch. My only disappointment with it, was the three piece neck. It's certainly stronger than a one piece, but it was done to reduce the cost, and it kinda gives it the feeling of cheap. However... everyone who has played it, is in love with it. I have friends with high end Martin and Bourgeois guitars... and they all love playing this thing. It's inspirational, and I'm glad Guild decided to make this. In my opinion... it's a $2000+ guitar with some of the bells and whistles taken off. Is it a showpiece... no, but it's darned nice to play and hear being played.

 

[walrus]

chazmo, was that Union Music? If so, I might check those out just to see.

walrus

 

[fronobulax]

chazmo, was that Union Music? If so, I might check those out just to see.

walrus

Since we both suffer from Senior Moments, I will gently ask if you noticed this was a thread from 2009 that got necro'd? I also seem to recall that Carl(?) from Union Music, announced his retirement and has almost certainly done so by now. I don't recall whether it was reported as closed or sold to new ownership but I might make a phone call before i made a trip to the store.