Difference between F412 and F512?

cupric

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I always thought the difference was wood. Maple in the 412 and Rosewood in the 512. But now I found a F512 in maple. ???
 

GGJaguar

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The F-512 Maple is the same as the F-412. For some reason, Guild (Cordoba) felt the need to rename it.
 

cupric

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But they still make a 412? Confusing. I think the old, decades long, naming system worked fine!
I noticed the F512 maple had a mahogany neck. The 412 usually had a (flamed) maple neck. I like the looks of the maple neck better!
 

GGJaguar

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But they still make a 412? Confusing. I think the old, decades long, naming system worked fine!
I noticed the F512 maple had a mahogany neck. The 412 usually had a (flamed) maple neck. I like the looks of the maple neck better!
Well, they don't make the F-412 under that name. They make it under the "F-512 Maple" name. Same guitar, different name. I hate that. They should have just kept calling it the F-412. The change from maple to mahogany neck happened sometime around 2000 with the JF65-12 (yet another name for the same model).
 

cupric

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I understand ownership changes. But why change the name? It would be like changing the name of the Strat, or Corvette. It's a iconic model(s). The old naming system was understandable, and worked. And there were enough differences between the models to warrant the different nomenclature.
 

Brucebubs

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The F-412, now called F-512 Maple, still has an unbraced arch back.
The rosewood F-512, still called F-512, has traditional bracing.
 

fronobulax

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I understand ownership changes. But why change the name? It would be like changing the name of the Strat, or Corvette. It's a iconic model(s). The old naming system was understandable, and worked. And there were enough differences between the models to warrant the different nomenclature.
You are trying to apply a logic that did not exist at several times during Guild's history. Obviously the people who made the change did not agree with you that the old names were iconic enough to preserve. CMG at least for a short time had a naming system that was internally consistent. Just because they did not name things the way you would have does not mean that the names are inherently wrong.

Not that I am privy to CMG's thinking but FMIC folks noted that the biggest competition for new Guilds was used Guilds. So if I rename new Guilds so they are hard to compare to old Guilds I might sell some new Guilds to people who gave up trying to find the vintage/used equivalent. Just because we don't like it or can't figure it out doesn't mean it is irrational to a company that is trying to sell new product.
 

Rich Cohen

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I've had both F-512 and F-412 (2) in the past, and can't wrap my mind around a maple arched back F-512 from Cordoba. It just doesn't feel right to my mind.
 
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adorshki

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I understand ownership changes. But why change the name? It would be like changing the name of the Strat, or Corvette. It's a iconic model(s). The old naming system was understandable, and worked. And there were enough differences between the models to warrant the different nomenclature.
As Frono mentioned, after CMG acquired 'em, Guild produced a chart which explained their new model naming system, still up on their website, link here because it's a PDF:

Note that "F412" would imply an instrument with a spruce top and hog body, and that a maple bodied-instrument is ID'd as a "5" along with the "maple" suffix to note the tone wood.

We've already been through all the hue and cry about the F20 now being the M40 and the F30 will be the OM40 if they ever get around to building it.

But the biggest crime is that there is no slot for the 16" jumbo (TRUE F40) family. At all.

Callin' an F412 an F512 Maple is irrelevant compared to that glaring oversight, which has resulted in them deciding to use the F40 designation for a 'hog bodied 17" jumbo. Now THAT's sheer arrogance: Capitalize on the name without making it the same. Grrrr.......
 
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spoox

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For what I paid for my Tacoma F412, I can live with the mahogany neck--it has nice quarter sawn figure, and besides--you're not supposed to be looking at the neck while playing anyway.
TACOMA6B.jpg
 

chazmo

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hehehehe.... I love this discussion!!!! It's great because (as moderator) I can allow everyone to soapbox and bandwagon and I don't have to intervene. Besides, Grot is always right!
 
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SFIV1967

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And now somebody also needs to explain why the F-412 and F-512 were called for quite a few years (1987-2001) JF-65M-12 or JF65-12 and JF-65R-12 or JF55-12... I'm just lazy today...

Ralf
 
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