Acoustic Pickups re-visited

[West R Lee]

Fascinating Terry, but let me ask this.....and I'm just asking as I have no expertise, but I've always been one (maybe because I'm so uninformed) to think that even the loss of contact with the top by the pickup strip itself, diminishes the reproduction of true acoustic sound? Then again, I suppose if there are gaps there, the clay could only help, and cetainly wouldn't hurt. I think I've answered my own question.

I do see that it takes up any uneveness and fills the gaps between the saddle and pickup. Never heard of this before. Thanks Terry.

BTW, I sort of half way expected to see you in Arlington last month. :wink: We were just down the road......maybe next year?

West

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Fascinating Terry, but let me ask this.....and I'm just asking as I have no expertise, but I've always been one (maybe because I'm so uninformed) to think that even the loss of contact with the top by the pickup strip itself, diminishes the reproduction of true acoustic sound?

Actually, it improves the tone/balance (due to there no longer being even microscopic gaps) and makes the UST considerably less likely to "quack".

And, it's very simple to reverse the process w/ no harm to the guitar or UST.

Then again, I suppose if there are gaps there, the clay could only help, and cetainly wouldn't hurt. I think I've answered my own question.

I do see that it takes up any uneveness and fills the gaps between the saddle and pickup. Never heard of this before. Thanks Terry.

BTW, I sort of half way expected to see you in Arlington last month. :wink: We were just down the road......maybe next year?

West

We talking about the Arlington Guitar Show? I was there for most of Sunday...

 

[chazmo]

Lots of equipment mentioned in this thread. Good stuff!

BTW, I have the K&K pure western mini pickups on the Tacoma F512... Very nice.

 

[West R Lee]

[quote="West R Lee":3rwdvqxk]Fascinating Terry, but let me ask this.....and I'm just asking as I have no expertise, but I've always been one (maybe because I'm so uninformed) to think that even the loss of contact with the top by the pickup strip itself, diminishes the reproduction of true acoustic sound?

Actually, it improves the tone/balance (due to there no longer being even microscopic gaps) and makes the UST considerably less likely to "quack".

And, it's very simple to reverse the process w/ no harm to the guitar or UST.

Then again, I suppose if there are gaps there, the clay could only help, and cetainly wouldn't hurt. I think I've answered my own question.

I do see that it takes up any uneveness and fills the gaps between the saddle and pickup. Never heard of this before. Thanks Terry.

BTW, I sort of half way expected to see you in Arlington last month. :wink: We were just down the road......maybe next year?

West

We talking about the Arlington Guitar Show? I was there for most of Sunday...[/quote:3rwdvqxk]

The LTG group met at the Sheraton on the Saturday night of the show.

West

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

[quote="Terry Allan Hall":1tnoifgr][quote="West R Lee":1tnoifgr]Fascinating Terry, but let me ask this.....and I'm just asking as I have no expertise, but I've always been one (maybe because I'm so uninformed) to think that even the loss of contact with the top by the pickup strip itself, diminishes the reproduction of true acoustic sound?

Actually, it improves the tone/balance (due to there no longer being even microscopic gaps) and makes the UST considerably less likely to "quack".

And, it's very simple to reverse the process w/ no harm to the guitar or UST.

Then again, I suppose if there are gaps there, the clay could only help, and cetainly wouldn't hurt. I think I've answered my own question.

I do see that it takes up any uneveness and fills the gaps between the saddle and pickup. Never heard of this before. Thanks Terry.

BTW, I sort of half way expected to see you in Arlington last month. :wink: We were just down the road......maybe next year?

West

We talking about the Arlington Guitar Show? I was there for most of Sunday...[/quote:1tnoifgr]

The LTG group met at the Sheraton on the Saturday night of the show.

West[/quote:1tnoifgr]


Sorry I missed that!

I'll try to make it next year or whenever it happens again.

 

[West R Lee]

We've done it the past couple of years Terry. I'm sorry, I guess I would have thought you might have seen some of the posts. Anyway, next year, behind the Sheraton, out by their pool, is a small building they call the "Yacht Club". That's where we'll be on Saturday night, looks like October 18 again of 2009.

R to L......That's Don (Our administrator from Michigan), Yours truly, Graham (From Canada), Jeff (From Washington state) and Scratch (From the Hill Country...Canyon Lake to be exact). Shot was taken 10/18/08 at the Stockyards.

West

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

We've done it the past couple of years Terry. I'm sorry, I guess I would have thought you might have seen some of the posts. Anyway, next year, behind the Sheraton, out by their pool, is a small building they call the "Yacht Club". That's where we'll be on Saturday night, looks like October 18 again of 2009.

R to L......That's Don (Our administrator from Michigan), Yours truly, Graham (From Canada), Jeff (From Washington state) and Scratch (From the Hill Country...Canyon Lake to be exact). Shot was taken 10/18/08 at the Stockyards.

West

Teach me to pay more attention, I guess...put the date and info into my PDA, and will try to make it out next year, for sure!

Looks like that'd be the 17th of October?

 

[6stringhacker]

Hi,
first time poster and new Guild owner from Mississauga Ontario Canada.
I thought this might be of interest in this thread.
http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptest.htm

This guy tested a whole bunch of acoustic pickups and also added sound samples.
It's very comprehensive and the equipment list seems fairly up to date with what I'm seeing offered on the manufacturers websites.

Edit: I just noticed a link to this same article earlier in the threads.Mods can you delete this post if you like.

 

[chazmo]

Guys, that Doug Young link is awesome. Subtle differences abound. More proof (IMO) that nothing quite compares to external mic'ing of a guitar for recording. That said, there are good things to say about just about all the systems I listened too. The only real problem here is that it's not a same guitar / different pickup comparison throughout the range of tests. Anyway, I think he did a good job!

nice stuff!

My general impression is that the mixed/internal-MIC systems have a more balanced sound and less metal overtones on the high strings. But, man, whether you like these sounds is clearly a personal taste matter.

Someday, someone will have to do something similar with 12 strings!

 

[Recky]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned B-Band pickups yet, but perhaps they're not so well known in the States. They're a Finnish company and have been around for a while.

I was put onto them by Martin Seeliger of Lakewood Guitars, as he used to factory-install B-Band PUs on his guitars before he (co-)developed his own system. All my guitars (except my F50) are equipped with B-Band active pickups, several generations, in fact, and I have always liked their sound enough to continue using their products. Being a studio guy as well as a touring muso, I'm painfully aware of the fact that a transducer will never sound like a Neumann mic, so amplifying an acoustic guitar will always be a compromise between authentic tone reproduction and hassle-free amplification.

The B-Band system I use is the simplest of the bunch, the A1 preamp, which lives in the (replaced) strap button, along with an under-saddle element (UST), which is not a piezo, but some kind of condenser job. The UST is so thin, you needn't even shave your saddle down to regain your preferred string action. The latest generation of this system comes with a thumb-wheel volume control which is mounted inside the soundhole.

The B-Band system has an extremely high tolerance to feedback, although the size and resonance of the guitar play in important role in this respect - you can only blame your PU system to some degree.

For my F50, I have just purchased my first dual B-Band system, which I have yet to install. It combines a UST with a soundboard transducer (also a condenser element). The preamp is a little box that is mounted inside the guitar and feeds volume and balance thumb-wheel controls mounted in the soundhole. The guys at B-Band told me that soundboard transducers are inherently more feedback-prone than USTs, that's why a balance control comes in handy. Solo gigs - balance towards the SBT: very natural tone as the mids and treble are drawn from the SBT and only the bottom end comes from the UST. Band gigs with loud monitoring - balance towards the UST: slightly more metallic (but still pleasing) tone, as the UST provides most or all of the amplified sound.

While I still have to see (hear) how the combined system fares, I can't recommend B-Band highly enough. AND, the system I use is very affordable.

Cheers
Recky

 

[Scratch]

Jus' 2 cents worth from Canyon Lake... I had the B-band A1 installed in my F512 about 18 months ago. I liked it and was about to install one in my F212CNT until someone here convinced my to try a K&K Pure Western. I asked my luthier his opinion; he installs B-Band exclusively and had put the A1 in the 512. He said he had never done a side-by-side comparison, but many of his customers rave about the K&K. Long story short: He installed the K&K Pure Western Standard in the 212 and a few weeks later, we played/compared them side-by-side with other folks in the shop listening in. The 212 actually outperfomed the 512 plugged in. This was the consensual opinion, as well, of the other musicians in the room at the time. Ross was so impressed, in fact, he now recommends and installs K&K's exclusively; the K&K's also sell for about $20.00 less than the B-Band. I do like the B-Band; if unable to locate a K&K, that would be my next choice.