Sold 3 pan head slot HB1 height adjustment screws #4-40 x 1 1/8"

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SFIV1967

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I'm looking for 3 x HB-1 height adjustment screws, the heads should be not rusty already (but they are probably stainless steel anyway).
Those are the pan head screws with slot head.
They are #4-40 (2.845 mm diameter). I have #3-48 (2.515 mm diameter) screws which are too thin unfortunatelly.

The thread length is about 1 1/8" (about 28 mm).

Somehow I can't find them in Europe.

They look about like those:

1591394975028.png


I believe those are the dimensions:

1591394207106.png


The head diameter is about 0.21" (5.4 mm).

Thanks!

Ralf
 
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Stuball48

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Lightning Stainless in West Hempstead, NY.
I saw some on eBay and $7.75 each if you buy three. They must be rare.
 

GAD

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I would love a source for these. It amazes me that they're so difficult to replace.
 

Stuball48

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Find a machine shop with CNC machine or machine that makes "machine screws" and go give them your drawing or measurements. A CNC metal lathe can make three before you can walk around your dinner table.
 

SFIV1967

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Ralf, I'll buy a bag of these to try out. https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-40-Pan-H...nless-Steel-All-Sizes-Available-/332841744169
I don't think the heads will be quite right, but I'm happy to spend $8 to find out.
O.k., let me know how they work out, I can Paypal you money to cover. The heads might be correct, the pictures on ebay seem to be just "example pictures". At least that drawing seems to fit the screws I have. (I have 3 in 4-40 just need another 3 for a second HB-1). I'm not sure if either of the 3 I have are original Guild. So it would be interesting to compare what screws are on your 70ies or 80ies HB-1.
Ralf
 

GAD

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I have many HB1 sets with original screws so I can do a nice macro side-by-side of the real deal.
 

Nuuska

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There is a fantastic screw & bolt shop nearby.
I try to remember ask them on monday or tuesday.
They are less than 2km away from my place - so no biggie.
Before I go there - few facts

Absolute minimum length ?
Can they be black - rostfrei - anything ?
Slothead - allen/hex - torx - etc?

Cylinder head - sure!
 

SFIV1967

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There is a fantastic screw & bolt shop nearby.
I try to remember ask them on monday or tuesday.
They are less than 2km away from my place - so no biggie.
Before I go there - few facts
Thanks for the offer Nuuska, but maybe wait a bit with it. Well, sure you can check with them! But GAD is trying to get some from ebay (see the link in his post) which look almost right except the picture of the head looks a bit rough, but it might be just an example screw picture. See also the drawing above in post # 1 which is this type he will buy. He will do some research project with them vs. the original screws. Those 70ies/80ies HB-1 screws are so special they are extremely difficult to get anywhere. It almost looks like the original manufacturer is no longer around or something. Not sure if Hans might know who the screw manufacturer was. This might have been a totally unimportant detail back at the time. (It's almost like nobody found the original manufacturing location for the Franz pickups yet...At least not that I know. I even had a friend going to the local library in Woodside and the central Library in Jamaica (Queens) to check for the Fransch Electric Company in Woodside and the Franz company in Astoria or Frank Schulz, and they didn't find anything useful.... Not sure if Hans has more details by now.)

Absolute minimum length ?
The screws I am looking for are exactly as described in my post #1 and are US size screws.
1 1/8" size (which is about 29.5mm total length including head or about 28mm thread length).

The thread is not metric but #4-40 size threads which is a diameter of 2.845 mm. A M3 size screw does not fit.

I can't tell you if this was the original Guild size, that is however the size I have which came with one HB-1 but I don't know if the screws were original. GAD will find out. The other HB-1 came with #3-48 (2.515 mm diameter) screws which are too thin for the holes in the mounting flanges.

Can they be black - rostfrei - anything ?
Not black! The 90ies HB-1 had black Philipps head screws. The 70ies and 80ies screws are most probably steel as it looks (Not sure if stainless steel). Maybe they were chrome plated? The head almost looks like chrome. See picture. Right is the golden version, just to see how they head shape is.

1591468685286.png
1591469220852.png


Slothead - allen/hex - torx - etc?
Slothead.

Cylinder head?
No, not a cylinder head, they are called "pan head". A cylinder head is a completely parallel head on the side.
This pan head however is only about 1.5mm thick and has a diameter of about 5.4 mm (0.21")
But not like a Fillister head (pole piece screws), compare to the flat pan head. They are slightly round only on the edge of the upper side, but not on the bottom side.

1591467218774.png
1591467251114.png
 
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poa77

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Hi, i was in your position a year so ago and in the end i had these made up by a specialist manufacturer. happy to send you some if you order them. they aren't exact replicas as it says in the description but they are very very close and do the job perfectly. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114242113193
 

SFIV1967

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Hi, i was in your position a year so ago and in the end i had these made up by a specialist manufacturer.
Yes, I saw them on ebay yesterday but was not 100% sure what to do. Good to know that you are here, and good to know where they come from! I will order 6 from you to compare and try!
Actually it's interesting that you said the originals would have had bigger heads with 0.25" (6.25 mm) instead of 0.219" (5.56 mm). Because the 0.219" seems to be what I have (actually they are like 0.21" and not 0.219" in my case) and where I think those might have been the original screws.
0.25" seems to big to me, but you also show HB-2 bass humbuckers on ebay, so maybe they used that bigger head?

Do you say screw 1 is the new one you had custom made and 2 is the original one? Because screw 2 with that slightly domed head does not look original to me!

1591480575703.png


It's a confusing topic, so I am looking forward to GADs investigation! In any way, your screws might be a good solution for me and I will later compare to the screws GAD ordered.

Ralf
 
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poa77

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Yes, I saw them on ebay yesterday but was not 100% sure. Good to know that you are here, and good to know where they come from! I might order some later to try. I will wait what GAD finds out first.
Thanks for contacting me about them! I appreciate this.
Ralf
hi ralf, no problem just order some as and when you need them. if GAD comes up with some originals even better but i tried for ages and couldn't find any hence my getting these made up. btw, it took the expert research work of my nephew who is a biomechanical engineer to discover what they actually are. he took one of my original screws into his lab and worked out the actual thread and dimensions for me. unfortunately as i said the head size on these replacement screws is vey slightly smaller than the originals but that's all i could source. as you can see from the pics it's hardly noticeable though. i'm in the UK so shipping shouldn't be very expensive at all as well. anyway, i have some here if you need them. cheers, stu
 

SFIV1967

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unfortunately as i said the head size on these replacement screws is vey slightly smaller than the originals but that's all i could source. as you can see from the pics it's hardly noticeable though.
Check my post above, I updated it regarding the head size! Your new screws look good to me. I also contacted you through ebay just seconds ago regarding postage.

I think GAD had to order a bag of 100, so he should have plenty after his research and in case they would be closer to the originals.

Ralf
 

wdboland

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Try McMaster-Carr. they don't have 1.125" screws. But they do have 1" and 1.25" steel and SS slotted panhead screws. Not perfect but, I bet they would work
 

wdboland

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I wouldn't even try to take an eight of an inch off of the length, just use them as is. Unless the cavity wasn't deep enough.

-Wayne
 

SFIV1967

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Thanks Wayne and Bonneville88! Agreed, 1.25" also would work, actually the thinner #3-48 screws I have are 1.25" and the length is fine as well in my case.
In the meantime I ordered 6 from Poa77 in the UK, lets see how they compare.
Also GAD ordered the type which head looks "better" than the head of the McMaster-Carr screws. Yes they would work but would not look "original". This is the "Fastenere" version GAD plans ordering and which looks "more original" in the drawing because they are flat on top as the originals are. Now the question later on is how they would compare to Poa77's. Simple screws can create an interesting discussion!

1591526486637.png


Ralf
 
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