Why Is the Modern D50 So Heavy?

[yettoblaster]

I always thought rosewood was heavier, as a wood?

Isn't it 'hog? ...

Yes, my D40 is spruce w hog s/b.

It's light, very responsive and spanky like a Larrivee, but still somehow sounds beefy like a Guild too. Tricky blend, I would think. :shock:

 

[dapmdave]

I always thought rosewood was heavier, as a wood?

Isn't it 'hog? ...

Yes, my D40 is spruce w hog s/b.

It's light, very responsive and spanky like a Larrivee, but still somehow sounds beefy like a Guild too. Tricky blend, I would think. :shock:

I think that's the magic of the D-40.

Dave

 

[playsvintageguilds]

That is so wierd to hear someone state that a '73 D50 is a tank.
My '73 D50 is one of the lightweights in my herd,next to my '67 D40.

Raj ????

 

[fab467]

:lol: Every time I see this post, i can Hear Abbey road riffs in my mind!.'She's so........bum-bum-bum-bum bum.....HEAVvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvY!!!'
I might need to put that one on today! :lol:
'turn me on Dead man!' :wink:

Too funny Southern... :lol:

 

[taabru45]

Back in the 70s some of the necks were paduch...an oily very heavy wood...hense some of thefinish problems on the neck of that era, and very heavy weight, reddish is color, with some black lines to distinguish if from mahogany....Steffan

 

[Treem]

VEER ALERT! My DV72 feels lighter than my pop's DV52. over

 

[wontox]

Okay, hate to get scientific here, but weighed some acoustics today:

1970 Guild D-40 no electronics 5.4 lbs

1967 Vox Country Western no elec.6.4

1966 Gibson Country Western no elec. 5.0

Modern Blueridge BR 70 with Fishman soundhole 5.2 (tiny hearing-aid type battery)

All these are dreads, except the Vox, which might be considered, at 1/2” larger bout width, a jumbo.

The Vox feels immensely heavy compared to the Blueridge and the Gibson, but the actual dif is only 1.2 and 1.4 lbs, the weight of a very nice trout but not really too much to fuss about, I guess. The D-40 feels a fair bit heavier than the Blueridge, but the dif is only .2 lbs. I guess a lot of this "seems" discrepancy is in my mind. BTW, if you've ever had all the hardware off of an electric, particularly a hollow body, you know how amazingly heavy all the pu's bridge, etc. weigh. My '84 Epi Sheraton (po' man's Starfire) weighs slightly over eight pounds.

Wontox

 

[adorshki]

Okay, hate to get scientific here,
Wontox

IN fact I love it. I keep thinkin' I gotta go buy a scale and WEIGH these things. Let's put some numbers up instead of all these subjective observations about something so basic and easily measured! :lol:

 

[West R Lee]

Indian Rosewood is a heavy wood, and it's density can vary from tree to tree, depending upon how it grew.
Your D-50 may have some that is on the high end of the density range.

In addition, during our tour of New Hartford, our guide, Frank, mentioned that the guitars from Tacoma were not dimensionally consistent because of variations in the tooling and a lot of hand sanding. For example, he pointed out that the body molds were not all the same height even for the same guitar model. So the body of one Tacoma D-50 could actually be slightly deeper than the body of another Tacoma D-50. Also, the back and sides were not necessarily sanded to the same thickness from guitar to guitar in the same model.

So you could have some especially dense rosewood in addition to some thicker back and side pieces. Those things would make for a heavier guitar.

By the way, dimensional consistency from guitar to guitar is one of the improvements made at the New Hartford factory by virtue of new tooling. They use very little of the old Tacoma tooling.

That's the first explanation I've heard for a question I've had around here for years. My DV73 is a heavier guitar than my DV72......other than the inlay, they're supposed to be identical guitars, yet the 72 is noticably lighter. You've shed some light Carl.

West

 

[playsvintageguilds]

Well done,Carl.
Such a simple solution to what appeared to be a complex issue.
Thanks !
R ????????

 

[count savage]

Yes, very interesting. Though what I take from the report about variation at Tacoma (or before) vs. the new intent to make the guitars more consistent is that there was actually some custom unpredictability and difference from guitar to guitar, as opposed to a standardization at the guitar 'plant,' like making cars. So, perhaps we should embrace these differences and look at them as the 'X' factor of human construction.

 

[Dadaist]

Interesting thread. After reading everyone's observations, I decided to actually weigh all of my Guilds on a digital postal scale...and here are the results (drum roll..please.....)

'81 D55 6 lbs 1 oz
'89 D50 5 lbs 7 oz
'94 GV 70 5 lbs 8.5 oz

In comparison, my '71 Martin D28, which is no lightweight especially when compared to
their new guitars, tips the scale at a paltry 4 lbs 13 oz.

Personally, I've become accustom to heavier guitars over the years and prefer them. Maybe subjectively, the weight equates quality. That said, I might have a different opinion if I had to perform with that D55 strapped across my shoulders for a three hour jam.

David

 

[West R Lee]

Interesting thread. After reading everyone's observations, I decided to actually weigh all of my Guilds on a digital postal scale...and here are the results (drum roll..please.....)

'81 D55 6 lbs 1 oz
'89 D50 5 lbs 7 oz
'94 GV 70 5 lbs 8.5 oz

In comparison, my '71 Martin D28, which is no lightweight especially when compared to
their new guitars, tips the scale at a paltry 4 lbs 13 oz.

Personally, I've become accustom to heavier guitars over the years and prefer them. Maybe subjectively, the weight equates quality. That said, I might have a different opinion if I had to perform with that D55 strapped across my shoulders for a three hour jam.

David

Now that is interesting David, I would have thought the GV70 would have been much lighter.

West

 

[Jeff]

[.,. I think there is something to the lightweight acoustic thing, though.

Jay Pilzer has an article in October 2010 Vintage Guitar Magazine "Guld; an Odyssey". Interesting article & well written, in it Jay speaks to Fender using lighter back braces in the Corona Guild acoustics.

The few Tacoma built D40's I've seen were universally light, nimble feeling guitars.

Ya'll want the feel of a hefty guitar, pick up my G37, big chunks of mahogany bracing glued under the neck & tail, easily the heaviest of the lot. Extra weight doesn't seem to slow it down much.

 

[adorshki]

Yes, very interesting. Though what I take from the report about variation at Tacoma (or before) vs. the new intent to make the guitars more consistent is that there was actually some custom unpredictability and difference from guitar to guitar, as opposed to a standardization at the guitar 'plant,' like making cars. So, perhaps we should embrace these differences and look at them as the 'X' factor of human construction.

Absolutely!

 

[Dadaist]

Interesting thread. After reading everyone's observations, I decided to actually weigh all of my Guilds on a digital postal scale...and here are the results (drum roll..please.....)

'81 D55 6 lbs 1 oz
'89 D50 5 lbs 7 oz
'94 GV 70 5 lbs 8.5 oz

In comparison, my '71 Martin D28, which is no lightweight especially when compared to
their new guitars, tips the scale at a paltry 4 lbs 13 oz.

Personally, I've become accustom to heavier guitars over the years and prefer them. Maybe subjectively, the weight equates quality. That said, I might have a different opinion if I had to perform with that D55 strapped across my shoulders for a three hour jam.

David

Now that is interesting David, I would have thought the GV70 would have been much lighter.

West

West,
You'd think that the GV70 would be lighter as there's not as much guitar as say the D50 and both of them are Rosewood and Spruce, though the D50 is AA and the GV70 AAA. Could there be a different density in grade? Maybe someone knows the answer.

The GV70 is a '94, just shy of the complete Fender takeover at Westerly. Maybe that explains why it still has the "weight" of the earlier instruments?

It would be interesting to see if any other GV70 folks out there would weigh their guitars to see just how much variation there was in a such a limited run. Hans had asked me to send Him depth measurements of the body at the neck and strap button as there appeared to be a slight deviation.

David

 

[cjd-player]

Hans had asked me to send Him depth measurements of the body at the neck and strap button as there appeared to be a slight deviation.

David

When Frank showed us some of the old Tacoma body molds in the New Hartford plant, it appeared that there was almost an eight of an inch difference between the shortest and tallest (same model guitars). The sides stayed in the molds while the edges were sanded to receive the back and top, so that body depth difference translated directly to the guitars. I was quite shocked that there would have been that much dimensional difference between guitars.

I don't know if those same body molds were used at Corona and Westerly.

 

[taabru45]

He ain't heavy, Steffan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seAOTYVbvpg&feature=fvst

 

[adorshki]

I don't know if those same body molds were used at Corona and Westerly.

I bet Hans does but if he wants to save it for a future volume of "the book", I could understand.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I have a Martin D-35 and a Guild D-50... both EIR dreads. The Guild does have a somewhat thicker neck. But the Guild is just way heavier than the Martin. The Martin doesn't feel fragile to me, but it does feel more lively when played. The Guild feels solid and sounds good, but not as lively in your hands.

It does seem like the finish on the Guild is thicker. Is this enough to make such a difference?

Dave

Same here.
My Martin D-35 is a lot lighter than my Tacoma Built Guild D-55.
Guild just makes heavy guitars.
Many people I know, say that this is why they don't like Guilds.

The guitar would just likes light guitars, in general.