Why is Fender so reprehensible?

[Graham]

So if I were to take this on another tangent and consider an older Guild, apparently there are some to avoid as well.

I a dreadnaught guy. Are there models and production years to avoid? Conversely what are the ones to really keep an eye out for?

I will absolutely consider hunting down a used guitar, but I think at this point I will have to see it, hold it play it for myself. It will also probably take some time, which is fine with me.

There are some decent shops in and around my area that I can inquire to. If I set myself a budget of about $1200 CAD ($1000 USD) is it reasonable to think that I might be able to track down a decent guitar?

G

 

[West R Lee]

Graham,

I'd like to make the same suggestion to you that Drednut made earlier in this thread. If I wanted the finest guitar that I could possibly get for $400-$1000, it's no brainer. I'd get a D25. I'd get one that was built between 1972 and somewhere around 1995. Now that's just personal opinion.

You mention the Martin D28. On several occasions I have played them and they are great guitars, I just don't think they can hang with a well built D25 in terms of sound quality, overall quality, punch.....and price. Obviously, you couldn't get a D28 in that price range anyway, so I rest my case. I've seen them all over the internet, from Ebay to Craigslist to Gbase and private sellers. Got to be a few in stores near you.

Good luck in your search.

West

Found this one for you Graham
http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDe ... em=1509018

and here is a tremendous guitar! and one heck of a price.
http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDe ... em=1519927

 

[SmithfieldFair]

The ONLY Guilds

No - the only Guilds aren't from NY - they're in my study. It's true. Now I can tell the world. I have the only REAL 8 Guilds on the planet! Well, except for the two brother Bob has.....O, and the one brother Joel has....and then....O, heck!

Looking for a really great Guild? Go ask your Aunt Alice. She bought one back in '69, thinking she was gonna be the next Joni Mitchell, but never got passed the Bm chord - the barre got her - and so she put the thing in it's case in the closet. Since she lives in Empireville, where the humidity is perfect and the temperature is always between 52 and 74 Fahrenheit - it's untouched by the ravages of time. People like Aunt Alice never could get rid of the thing and then just forgot about it. So, go ask your Aunt Alice.

But, don't ask me anything. I'm not telling - and besides, I want you all to go out and buy good, new Guilds - regardless of where they are from. Guilds, Guild-Guild-Guild. Guilds everywhere. No more snobbery. Just Guilds. It will make the Donnie Wades of the world So-0--0 happy..and rich - beyond their wildest dreams.

So, yeah - you lads all go out and buy-buy-buy those new Guilds so that they are everywhere and Guild will finally have its day in the sun. Yeah, that's it. Happy, happy, happy! Ain't like grand? dbs

 

[West R Lee]

Cal,

I'd buy your arguement about eliminating the competition if Fender had ever built an acoustic guitar that could compete. Seriously, this is the part of the Fender buyout of Guild that I can't seem to grasp. Fender acoustics were not a competitor of Guild at the time, nor were they competing with Martin or Gibson. Fender acoustics, to the best of my knowledge, have never had a reputation that I am aware of.

West

 

[SmithfieldFair]

O - good one, West.

O - good one, West. C'mon let's get happy! Look at those amazing colours! Wow! C'mon, now - someone else voice a real smashing opinion about something or other. Yeah! dbs

 

[FNG]

wasn't the Westerly plant opened to increase the efficiency of production that the Hoboken plant wasn't able to provide? Sort of the same thing that happened when the Westerly plant was closed? So, in reality, the only true Guilds are Hoboken.

By that logic, the only true Guilds are from New York.

New York, New Jersey, same difference, they all talk funny. :lol: :lol:

 

[West R Lee]

:lol: But no where near as funny as they talk in China :wink: .

West

 

[Siwash]

Smithfield Fair: I enjoy, heck even relish, your passion. It's great and big and expressive! I agree it's lame for Fender to move out of Rhode Island. I agree Fender is no great shakes in the acoustic world. But the jury's returned, and the verdict is that the Chinese GADs are awfully good for the money.

Drednut insists that you should buy a used D-25 instead. Well, maybe. . . but HOW? Take a chance at eBay roulette and hope you don't get a bum deal? I went to a guitar show, saw 4-5 Guild D-25s from Rhode Island, and only one sounded good; one was outright lousy and the guy wanted $700. . . more than the $600 I paid for my GAD50. It would take a long, long time to track down pawn shops and music stores with second-hand D-25s ready for you to compare and choose from.

I guess I'm just not keen to pull the trigger on internet purchases of guitars I've never actually played and heard. The GAD50 really does a lovely job for the buck. The above posters are correct in asserting that the GADs will pull in people to the Guild name and transition them to the bigger Tacoma Guild purchase.

 

[FNG]

:lol: But no where near as funny as they talk in China :wink: .

West

True, but they make better noodles in China. :shock: :shock:

 

[songsmith7]

Gibson has Epiphone.

To me, this is why Fender is so reprehensible. Gibson has owned Epiphone for decades, has always marketed Epi's as cheaper, and yes 'inferior,' and everyone knows when they buy an Epi, that it is not a Gibson.

That's why I own 4 Epiphone Masterbilt guitars that were made in China, sound as good as the GADs, and I don't have to worry that I'm getting something I'm not.

Guild is Guild. It is not Fender, it is not Tacoma, it is not China, it is not Corona. It is New York, Hoboken, and Westerly.

To me, this debate is akin to Mercedes Benz buying Audi, taking production to Madagascar, and still trying to profit off of the Audi name.

 

[dreadnut]

I had real good luck with ebay. I was a one-Guild guy for 20 years, then I played a F-512 in a local vintage shop and fell in love with it, but $1,200.00.

Some kid's parents bought it for him, then the kid had them saw a hole in the beautiful rosewood top side and put in an equalizer I was heartbroken.

I said I would NEVER buy a guitar off e-bay, but there it was, an F-512 within a few serial numbers of the one I'd played. I put in a proxy bid of $1,200 and got it for $900. With original hardshell case. I put some new strings on it, tuned it up, and flew off to heaven for awhile Point is, it wasn't as much of a crap shoot as buying just any old guitar, I had a pretty good idea what I was getting.

Then the DV-52 came along. BIN of $659.00 I snatched it up. It arrived and it was spotless clean. OK, I got lucky on that one 8)

Keep your eyes open for a DV-52, or a DCE-5 Graham, you should be able to get a nice rosewood dread for that kind of money. Also, these models are a little more obscure and I think not so likely to drive up the bidding as a D-55 or even a D-50.

I agree with West that a vintage D-25 would make you happy as well. The old D-25's are real cannons.

You can get a nice maple, arched back G-37 for under 1,000 clams too, these are pretty nice as well.

Most of the time, you can tell when there is a real nice listing on ebay as opposed to a piece of crap. You can ask questions of the seller, i.e. "what is the action measured at the 12th fret? Are there any cracks in the wood? Finish checking? etc, etc." If they are vague or unresponsive, don't bid. Never bid on one that comes in a gig bag or a cheap chipboard case or "has no case but I'll package it real well", unless you don't care if the guitar is beat to snot.

Anyway, I changed my tune about buying online, but its based on buying vintage Guilds that I've done my homework on, and then having the patience to wait out that great buy.

Meanwhile, I'm patiently waiting for West to offer me that DV-73... :roll:

 

[Jeff]

You can get a nice maple, arched back G-37 for under 1,000 clams too, these are pretty nice as well.

Yep, this G 37 was offered to me for $800. I saw and played it last Friday, had some playwear but it was straight & tight & sounded like a symphony. Wasn't in a shop, belonged to a guy selling a Trace amp. If a good D25 sounds better than this G 37 they are fine sounding indeed.

Too late now, the seller changed his mind, sold something else & now he's keeping it.

Nice vintage Guild's, reasonably priced occasionally come up around here but not very often.

[img:338:450]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid216/p040a40f9cb2a64c65ff59a9c98f30f60/ecacd914.jpg[/img]

 

[SmithfieldFair]

Happy....endings?

Once upon a time, there was a guitarist (me) who stated emphatically he would NEVER buy a guitar mail-order - something he had never held in his hands. You see, this guy grew up with a Guild dealer that held back his truly amazing models (yes, there are some from Westerly that suck - it happens everywhere, just seemingly in smaller numbers there so that the suck models are always a bit of a shock) and tried to place them appropriately with guitarist he knew or felt would be a right match. Lots of happy endings there.

But, as time went on, a dragon moved in down the block. This dragon's name was Ebay. In the hope of better neighborly relations, the guitarist got brave and tried buying one of the dragon's guitars. Hey - great price, GREAT Guild. The guitarist and the dragon seemed to get on already propelled by this event.

Now, the guitarist has devloped a VERY healthy sense of fear about the dragon - realizing how erratic and unpredictable he can be. The dragon, like most with personality disorders, doesn't even have a clue when the 'bad dragon' will arise.

Still, to date, the guitarist who said he would never even purchase a guitar he couldn't play in person first, has purchased 5 Guilds from the dragon. O, he's learned some caution and only had one minor wiggle on one sale, but the outcomes have been mostly happy.

The guitarist has gotten from the dragon some fairly elusive models and some amazing results. The guitarist has also learned a healthy respect for fire.

And (so far) they live happily ever after in the same universe and neighborhood (mainly because the guitarist realized the drago wasn't going away). dbs

 

[Siwash]

Well, I once got bit by the dragon in the purchase of an ostensibly new and working wristwatch. Lost my money. And I like the comfort of knowing the guitar will sound good before I buy it. Even old Guilds vary and some are junk . . in fact, I tested my GAD 50 in a store against Takamines, Alvarezes, a Masterbilt and a couple of Martins. . . of the two Martins, the GAD 50 sound BEAT one of them; the other Martin sounded better than the GAD 50. Given its features, I liked it over a very fine-sounding Blueridge BR160.

I guess spruce is spruce, rosewood is rosewood, and, for me, what makes a brand distinct isn't so much the substance with which the product is made, but the design of the product and the competency of the maker. With the GADs, the makers are very good, but I credit the value of the Guild brand to the guitar designers, when all is said and done, since those same Chinese probably also are making Blueridges. I don't think there's any guarantee that the Chinese workers will automatically be sloppier than the guys in Tacoma, Washington.

I don't mean to be argumentative here. I've gone around the issues and bit and these are my current thoughts. But let me know if they're weak!

 

[dreadnut]

I hate to keep beating a dead horse here, but when Westerly's doors were closed it was the end of an era. Comparing Guilds built since then with East Coast Guilds is like comparing fish to bicycles. :lol:

If you want something new and different, buy a Corona or an GAD or a Tacoma.

If you want a vintage Guild, buy a Westerly, Hoboken or NY.

I like the East Coast Guilds, and many of them are still available for the price of a new GAD.

 

[SmithfieldFair]

Another zinger...brilliant!

Dred - comparing fish to bicycles...that's rich. But, comparing fish to bicycles is like comparing light sockets to gumdrops, or, to be brutally honest and yet sublime....comparing Grover tuning machines to fried chicken. The fact is, one can never convince someone who is a fish to ride a bicycle. Their heart will never be in it, even if they master the pedals. Man, I LOVE fried chicken....dbs

 

[West R Lee]

Siwash, Dred and Smith,

Siwash, Dred and Smith are two experienced Guild players with whom I could not agree more on each and every point. Dred has given you several fine examples of Guild acoustics, and I second ALL of his choices.

All truth in what Smith is telling you too. Ideally, we would all like to have an intimate knowledge of the guitars we buy before we buy them. Nice old Westerly Guild guitars are still fairly abundant, but will slowly begin to dwindle as time goes on.

I've made 4 Ebay purchases of Westerly built guild acoustics and have recently bought the most expensive guitar I own, from an internet dealer in Miami, based on conversations with sellers, pictures and just a little common sense. The dragon has nipped at me just once, and that Westerly built D55 is one of the finest players I've ever heard.

Again, good luck to you....yours it out there, be patient and do your research.

West

 

[drowlins]

I guress honest debate isen't welcome here.

 

[coastie99]

Au contrare, Drowlins !

8 pages on the subject screams to me that honest debate is alive and well here !

 

[West R Lee]

I was just thinking the same thing Coastie.

West