that really sucks :evil:
See if you can get UUPS to pay you the $2K and let you keep the guitar...
See if you can get UUPS to pay you the $2K and let you keep the guitar...
UPS mangled my DV-72!!!
- Thread starter jazzmang
- Start date
bdeclee
Member
Oh man oh man, that brings me right back to last year... UPS did the EXACT SAME THING to my Westerly F-412. They clearly dropped the guitar down some F***IN long chute and it landed on the endpin. Drove the endpin into the body of the guitar and shattered the block.
I still have a kind of grief over that instrument - not because I never got to own it, but because a thing of beauty was destroyed by shmucks.
You have my utter and complete sympathy.
I still have a kind of grief over that instrument - not because I never got to own it, but because a thing of beauty was destroyed by shmucks.
You have my utter and complete sympathy.
john_kidder
Senior Member
It breaks one's heart to see a beautiful guitar treated so badly.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
:evil: West R Lee
Venerated Member
Jazz,
I'm afraid that anything I say will make you feel worse than you already do, I'm so very sorry. None of this is intended to make you feel bad, but to encourage you.
First of all, the DV72 is my primary guitar.......I can't say enough good about them......just beautiful sound and playability. When I see mine, I light up, and I mean that. However, when I saw yours, after having read the thread in it's entirety, I expected the damage to be much worse. Yep, it's bad allright, I won't deny that, but from what I can see in your pictures, she looks very repairable.
If it were me, and obviosly it's not, I'd hound UPS to the end of the world, but I'd get a repairman to do a bang up job on her. I'd try and get the sale full price and shipping out of them, but if you can, fix her. You might end up with the most incredible guitar you've ever played.
Good luck to you, and please let us know how you come out with UPS and what becomes of that guitar.....and if you like, we'll be on the lookout for you another DV72.
West
I'm afraid that anything I say will make you feel worse than you already do, I'm so very sorry. None of this is intended to make you feel bad, but to encourage you.
First of all, the DV72 is my primary guitar.......I can't say enough good about them......just beautiful sound and playability. When I see mine, I light up, and I mean that. However, when I saw yours, after having read the thread in it's entirety, I expected the damage to be much worse. Yep, it's bad allright, I won't deny that, but from what I can see in your pictures, she looks very repairable.
If it were me, and obviosly it's not, I'd hound UPS to the end of the world, but I'd get a repairman to do a bang up job on her. I'd try and get the sale full price and shipping out of them, but if you can, fix her. You might end up with the most incredible guitar you've ever played.
Good luck to you, and please let us know how you come out with UPS and what becomes of that guitar.....and if you like, we'll be on the lookout for you another DV72.
West
West,
Thanks for the kind words. I am definitely pretty upset at the moment. I filed a claim with UPS and will definitely hound them til the end of all time for this.
I would hope they would give me full value for the guitar, as it is essentially useless as it stands now. I am just so frustrated that out of all the guitars I've shipped, they had to completely ruin the one that was the rarest I'd been able to find.
Regardless, I wonder what an amazing repair job would end up running for something like this. If they pulled out all the stops and got it fixed up to pristine condition (if thats even possible), I'd probably still be happy if she played as good as she looks.
Anyways. I'm bummed out. Hopefully my D100 acquisition will work out next week and I'll be happier!
Thanks for the kind words. I am definitely pretty upset at the moment. I filed a claim with UPS and will definitely hound them til the end of all time for this.
I would hope they would give me full value for the guitar, as it is essentially useless as it stands now. I am just so frustrated that out of all the guitars I've shipped, they had to completely ruin the one that was the rarest I'd been able to find.
Regardless, I wonder what an amazing repair job would end up running for something like this. If they pulled out all the stops and got it fixed up to pristine condition (if thats even possible), I'd probably still be happy if she played as good as she looks.
Anyways. I'm bummed out. Hopefully my D100 acquisition will work out next week and I'll be happier!
Treem
Senior Member
Jazz,
Based on my experience with UPS. If UPS does rule on your side and decide to pay you the price of the DV72 minus the shipping cost. They will take the DV72 from me. Basically buying it from you. fyi.
Don't know if it's still for sale? It's in Canada and it's a DV72!
http://halifax.en.craigslist.ca/msg/1101201988.html
Treem
Based on my experience with UPS. If UPS does rule on your side and decide to pay you the price of the DV72 minus the shipping cost. They will take the DV72 from me. Basically buying it from you. fyi.
Don't know if it's still for sale? It's in Canada and it's a DV72!
http://halifax.en.craigslist.ca/msg/1101201988.html
Treem
Jazz,I share the pain and may the fleas of a thousand camels infest UPS and who ever the thoughtless git was who did the deed.
On the plus side(there'e a plus side?) looking at the pictures I'd say that it is wholly possible to get the damage fixed and you would never know that anything had been done. It looks like most of the damage outside is all with the grain. The end block will be split but that is out of sight. Maybe Guild will do the repair but there are a small band of experts who make these repairs disappear. It costs, but if you can screw as much as possible out of the scum that is UPS you will still end up with a excellent guitar. I know you would have taken the tension off the strings and didn't get to play it before the damage but is it a good sounding edition? Is it worth saving for you?Have you bonded with it?If any of my babies had been hurt I would go to(and have) any lengths to get them fixed.If it is a family member go to bat for it.
I've been lucky and have never had a guitar sent by courier but then the UK is only the size of 1 US state. I thought all Guild end pins could be pulled out? Even on the electrics they are tapered. It seems to be a Guild querk. Had it been stuck in by a previous owner?
Best of luck, Steve.
On the plus side(there'e a plus side?) looking at the pictures I'd say that it is wholly possible to get the damage fixed and you would never know that anything had been done. It looks like most of the damage outside is all with the grain. The end block will be split but that is out of sight. Maybe Guild will do the repair but there are a small band of experts who make these repairs disappear. It costs, but if you can screw as much as possible out of the scum that is UPS you will still end up with a excellent guitar. I know you would have taken the tension off the strings and didn't get to play it before the damage but is it a good sounding edition? Is it worth saving for you?Have you bonded with it?If any of my babies had been hurt I would go to(and have) any lengths to get them fixed.If it is a family member go to bat for it.
I've been lucky and have never had a guitar sent by courier but then the UK is only the size of 1 US state. I thought all Guild end pins could be pulled out? Even on the electrics they are tapered. It seems to be a Guild querk. Had it been stuck in by a previous owner?
Best of luck, Steve.
I never got a chance to play it before it was mangled. It was shipped from Washington State to me here in Atlanta, GA. Besides the UPS damage, the guitar is actually in pretty good condition. Cosmetically, its excellent, but it does need a neck reset (which I knew at the time of sale and I was compensated for), along with a new saddle and nut of course.
I actually hope that UPS would pay for the value of the guitar and still let me keep it... although they may be hardasses about it and outright take it from me. I wonder what would happen to it if they did so...
I actually hope that UPS would pay for the value of the guitar and still let me keep it... although they may be hardasses about it and outright take it from me. I wonder what would happen to it if they did so...
bdeclee
Member
All of our collective experiences with UPS have led me to ask the question, "How else do we ship guitars?"
I just sold 4 guitars to pay for my Lowden. I shipped 3 of them UPS, and you can be sure I was obsessive-compulsive when I packed them. I was a nervous wreck, actually, because I did ship via UPS. Fortunately for me, they all arrived in great shape (and for 2 of them, I couldn't remove the end pin because it contained the electronics).
So what do we do? I get the impression FedEx isn't any better. We can't fly the guitars ourselves... I suppose I'm halfway answering my own question by saying that we have to pack even better than we think is possible, especially because of those conveyor belts and chutes. Doesn't UPS/FedEx have some alternative conveyor belt for packages marked "FRAGILE"???
ARGH!!
I just sold 4 guitars to pay for my Lowden. I shipped 3 of them UPS, and you can be sure I was obsessive-compulsive when I packed them. I was a nervous wreck, actually, because I did ship via UPS. Fortunately for me, they all arrived in great shape (and for 2 of them, I couldn't remove the end pin because it contained the electronics).
So what do we do? I get the impression FedEx isn't any better. We can't fly the guitars ourselves... I suppose I'm halfway answering my own question by saying that we have to pack even better than we think is possible, especially because of those conveyor belts and chutes. Doesn't UPS/FedEx have some alternative conveyor belt for packages marked "FRAGILE"???
ARGH!!
Hi jazzer; doesn't get any better than having the cake and eating it too ... :wink: If your auto carrier 'totals' your car, they are buying it from you. If UPS pays you your purchase price, they own it. I guess you can buy it back from them but, as you say, it's crapped up. If they were willing to entertain you, you'd buy it back for, say, 70% of what you paid and you'd have the guitar and 30% of the price in your pocket ... exactly where you'd be if they honored a 30% damage claim. There's usually insufficient space in the case to put enough bubblewrap left and right of the endpin to protect it without pushing the guitar too far towards the other end. I am sorry about your guitar and hope UPS steps up for you and the seller. Johnjazzmang said:
haha. I know, its wishful thinking, but it bothers me to think of what UPS will do with this one once they collect it. Trash? Thats a shame! Maybe I can bribe the claimsperson so I can keep the guitar... he can tell his superiors that it was destroyed! :lol:
... or maybe give him a different busted up guitar! I kid, I kid! :wink:
... or maybe give him a different busted up guitar! I kid, I kid! :wink:
Hi Jazzman; there used to be an eBay vendor Bargainland who sold broken stuff; they were very good about complete disclosure. Lots of their stuff was shipping victims; snapped necks, pushed-in endpins ... One of UPS's problems in buying outright is getting rid of the stuff. Let's say you and I were in the business of buying UPS's junkers ... our next move would be have one of our neighbors ship the broken item to your uncle, it arrives wrecked - the same condition that it left in - and your uncle files a shipping damage claim with the carrier ... Of course, this would be wrong ... but as we're finding out, it takes more than love to make the world go round :wink: Johnjazzmang said:
6L6
Senior Member
Very sorry about your loss. That was a beautiful instrument that took a lot of time, care, and craftsmanship to build.
I solved the shipping problem by selling on Craigslist and confining the ad to my local area. I've never failed to sell any instrument or piece of gear on Craigslist. And, it's free!
6
'06 D-55
'06 D-40BJ
'06 F-412
'74 D-40
'98 Martin D-45V
'98 Collings D-1
'03 Taqylor 214
I solved the shipping problem by selling on Craigslist and confining the ad to my local area. I've never failed to sell any instrument or piece of gear on Craigslist. And, it's free!
6
'06 D-55
'06 D-40BJ
'06 F-412
'74 D-40
'98 Martin D-45V
'98 Collings D-1
'03 Taqylor 214
cjd-player
Senior Member
Here is a relevant post from the AGF regarding damage claims for UPS and others:
... you are protected for the damages in full. Have your lawyer friends look up the Carmack Amendment, Title 49 of the United States Code at section 14706 et. seq. It's a very old law regarding carriers and their responsibility to you if they damage your property.
Carmack Amendment
An amendment to the Interstate Commerce Act which provides that a common carrier who receives property for transport to a point in another state or territory, the District of Columbia, or an adjacent foreign country shall be liable for any loss, damage, or injury it causes to its cargo. It makes a carrier liable, without proof of negligence, for all damage to the goods. First enacted in 1906, the amendment applies to motor carriers (UPS, FedEx, and the like), airlines, and freight forwarders as well as railroads and other sundry common carriers.
A link to the Amendment:
http://www.nichebooks.com/Shipping-Carmack-Damage.pdf
Pat Diburro is quite possibly the best repair guy in the U.S.
Fortunately, I have never needed to use him, but from all of the fabulous stories that I have read about him, I would not trust a rare DV-72 to anyone else.
Look at some of the examples on his web site.
Just amazing what he can do.
http://www.diburro.com/
Look at the "Adventures in Shatered Wood"
go to "List of Repairs"
Then look at the Taylor 714CE under "Impact/Crack repairs"
Tha original damage was very similar to that on your DV-72.
__________________
... you are protected for the damages in full. Have your lawyer friends look up the Carmack Amendment, Title 49 of the United States Code at section 14706 et. seq. It's a very old law regarding carriers and their responsibility to you if they damage your property.
Carmack Amendment
An amendment to the Interstate Commerce Act which provides that a common carrier who receives property for transport to a point in another state or territory, the District of Columbia, or an adjacent foreign country shall be liable for any loss, damage, or injury it causes to its cargo. It makes a carrier liable, without proof of negligence, for all damage to the goods. First enacted in 1906, the amendment applies to motor carriers (UPS, FedEx, and the like), airlines, and freight forwarders as well as railroads and other sundry common carriers.
A link to the Amendment:
http://www.nichebooks.com/Shipping-Carmack-Damage.pdf
Pat Diburro is quite possibly the best repair guy in the U.S.
Fortunately, I have never needed to use him, but from all of the fabulous stories that I have read about him, I would not trust a rare DV-72 to anyone else.
Look at some of the examples on his web site.
Just amazing what he can do.
http://www.diburro.com/
Look at the "Adventures in Shatered Wood"
go to "List of Repairs"
Then look at the Taylor 714CE under "Impact/Crack repairs"
Tha original damage was very similar to that on your DV-72.
__________________
kitniyatran
Senior Member
I was thinking, since jazzmang is in Atlanta, maybe Randy Wood is not too far away; he sure has an excellent rep, especially with mandolins, but I'd think he'd be up to this, or at least able to advise.
West R Lee
Venerated Member
bdeclee said:
USPS Barbara. I've shipped Coastie a guitar from Texas to New Zealand for 1/5 the price UPS and Fedex. They each wanted in the $600 range for the shipment, USPS delivered her for $127. I've not shipped a package USPS that was damaged upon arrival, so I have no experience there, but something tells me the United States Postal Service would be far easier to get a damaged settlement out of the either Fedex or UPS. We just shipped a Mark IV to California from Texas without a hitch. The only drawback with USPS is that you have to pay to track your package, and they're slow...........I'm willing to use them anyway.
West
fungusyoung
Senior Member
cjd-player said:
Sorry folks... not to rain on anyone's parade, but there's NO WAY this amendment will hold any water, especially since it goes so far as to indicate no proof of negligence. I've been in the freight forwarding business for over 17 years... that industry is very protected from consequential damages and liability is rather limited. If the shipment was insured or if any negligence can be proven, totally different story.
Please don't take this as any sort of defense of UPS or their rough handling... there's simply no excuse for that.