Tempted to make this a poll topic...

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walrus said:
I'm sure when I drive by, people who don't like my type of music would say it's too loud. Cranking "Helter Skelter" isn't for everyone!

Then when a car goes by me blasting hip hop, I definitely think its too loud - ANY volume of that is too loud for me.

It's all relative...

walrus

I do actually like rap, but IMO, the current stuff isn't "really" rap (I feel the same way about modern country.) when you have "artists" who sing about a lifestyle that they never experienced and glamorize said lifestyle, it ruins it (why would I want to listen to someone sing about what their wannabe life is like in their head?), whether it be "country people" who grew up in the city and have never even been to a farm, or rappers who act like tough thugs who grew up in the hood but really grew up in suburbia with a silver spoon in their mouth. Music is something that comes from within, and when those experiences that are portrayed as genuine are made up, it cheapens it. Then again, most "artists" could care less about being true to themselves or anyone else, because money is much more important than that.
 

killdeer43

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West R Lee said:
:lol: Sorry guys, but in my very humble opinion........rap is not music, it's talking (sometimes almost in rhyme) to somewhat of a beat with a bunch of other goofy noises in the backround.........and no artistic value whatsoever.

West .....censor away.
I'll jump on that bus with you, Jim. :wink:

Joe
 

guitarjamman

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killdeer43 said:
West R Lee said:
:lol: Sorry guys, but in my very humble opinion........rap is not music, it's talking (sometimes almost in rhyme) to somewhat of a beat with a bunch of other goofy noises in the backround.........and no artistic value whatsoever.

West .....censor away.
I'll jump on that bus with you, Jim. :wink:

Joe

Not trying to start anything, but this raises the question in my mind of what is music then?
 

fronobulax

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West R Lee said:
:lol: Sorry guys, but in my very humble opinion........rap is not music, it's talking (sometimes almost in rhyme) to somewhat of a beat with a bunch of other goofy noises in the backround.........and no artistic value whatsoever.

West .....censor away.

What you and several posters seem to have missed is that the issue here is not censorship but personal attacks.

"I think rap sucks" is very clearly a personal opinion and fine with me, especially if I ever choose to share what I really feel about Country and '60's Folk Music, both of which are staples for acoustic guitar players. The moderator concerns are when people get cute with language and make their opinion sound as if it is a universal truth.

West R Lee said:
Rap sucks!!!
is an example of something that probably would get some additional editing because it invites people to weigh in on the subject and appears to be discussing a general topic and not West's opinion.

And the thing we want to avoid is something like "West is a dumb a$$ cowboy because he hates rap" (even if some people would consider "dumb a$$ cowboy a compliment and badge of honor").

So West got it right.

Those who wonder why this is an issue should find the threads (if they are still here) where a Scandinavian member got extremely frustrated because no one had heard of the bands he liked and it degenerated to personal attacks or where the failure to acknowledge the superiority of The Beatles lead to attacks and departed members. CapnJuan ripped me a new one because of a failure in moderation and he was right. I'd rather not make that mistake again.
 

Ridgemont

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coastie99 said:
fronobulax said:
No one has crossed the line, or even come especially close, but I do want to remind folks that people who play Guilds and frequent LTG have varied musical preferences. It is one thing to express a personal opinion that you would rather not listen to a particular genre and quite another to dismiss a genre as unworthy of anyone's time and attention.


There ya go plebs ............ you have been warned !!

Welcome to Gulag Frono. And adieu to any small thoughts I was entertaining of re-joining the Forum.
Gary, we all know you silently watch the forum. Many of us have flirted with leaving the forum at one time or another, secretly hoping something changes around here. But as you can see, the forum is run in a certain way and, much to the chagrin of many, there is a reason behind it.

You have made your statement very clear several months ago about your distaste for the censoring from the higher ups. We get it. You were very clear in your statements. But to occasionally respond publicly sort of detracts from your original strong stance by leaving LTG. Getting up on your soapbox and proclaiming "I do not like the way LTG is run so I am leaving" is a strong noble stance that not many of us can back up. But now, with occasional posts of pure retaliation, your stance has become: "I do not like the way LTG is run so I am leaving...but I will be back on occasion to post something else so people don't forget about me and to stir up a few responses." Well as far as a few responses, I took the bait.

I am from Texas and we have a tendency to be blunt. To add, you have made a name for yourself for being direct. So in the spirit of Coastie99, who we all hope comes to terms with his distaste for LTG, $h!T or get off the pot.
 

killdeer43

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Ridgemont said:
coastie99 said:
fronobulax said:
No one has crossed the line, or even come especially close, but I do want to remind folks that people who play Guilds and frequent LTG have varied musical preferences. It is one thing to express a personal opinion that you would rather not listen to a particular genre and quite another to dismiss a genre as unworthy of anyone's time and attention.


There ya go plebs ............ you have been warned !!

Welcome to Gulag Frono. And adieu to any small thoughts I was entertaining of re-joining the Forum.
Gary, we all know you silently watch the forum. Many of us have flirted with leaving the forum at one time or another, secretly hoping something changes around here. But as you can see, the forum is run in a certain way and, much to the chagrin of many, there is a reason behind it.

You have made your statement very clear several months ago about your distaste for the censoring from the higher ups. We get it. You were very clear in your statements. But to occasionally respond publicly sort of detracts from your original strong stance by leaving LTG. Getting up on your soapbox and proclaiming "I do not like the way LTG is run so I am leaving" is a strong noble stance that not many of us can back up. But now, with occasional posts of pure retaliation, your stance has become: "I do not like the way LTG is run so I am leaving...but I will be back on occasion to post something else so people don't forget about me and to stir up a few responses." Well as far as a few responses, I took the bait.

I am from Texas and we have a tendency to be blunt. To add, you have made a name for yourself for being direct. So in the spirit of Coastie99, who we all hope comes to terms with his distaste for LTG, $h!T or get off the pot.
Excellent post, Ridge! :wink:

Joe
 

Los Angeles

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Geo said:
fronobulax said:
No one has crossed the line, or even come especially close, but I do want to remind folks that people who play Guilds and frequent LTG have varied musical preferences. It is one thing to express a personal opinion that you would rather not listen to a particular genre and quite another to dismiss a genre as unworthy of anyone's time and attention.
I don't know about pop but does this mean rap isn't really crap? :shock:


George
Yes.
 

Los Angeles

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Maybe old timey music is quieter and is less monochromatic, but I'll tell you this about younger music and younger fans: They are far more culturally diverse and much less likely to hate other people's music. Young people listen to and like a lot of different styles, including the music of the generations before they were born.

Of all the trends that fade away, the trend of enthnocentric music bias is dying away and the music world is truly better for it.

This is just my opinion.
 

Ridgemont

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Los Angeles said:
Of all the trends that fade away, the trend of enthnocentric music bias is dying away and the music world is truly better for it.
Unless more of them start listening to country music.
 

Ravon

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Before ya'll start fretting too much over the demise of music (rock n roll anyway), I'm fortunate to be able to pick up two nearby college radio stations and most of the music they play is great (one is Western Ky. University 91.7 FM). Most of it is very creative and for a 52 yr. old that grew up on seventies rock I'm impressed. Mainstream radio has always been geared to the teenybops. I hated punk when it came out and feel the same about rap, I guess because its only about attitude... a bad one. They're spoiled brats and wannabe thugs and rebels without a clue, there's not any guitar in it and the music is secondary. Unfortunately the young eat it up. But there is good new music out there, you just gotta know where to look
 

adorshki

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Ravon said:
Before ya'll start fretting too much over the demise of music (rock n roll anyway), I'm fortunate to be able to pick up two nearby college radio stations and most of the music they play is great (one is Western Ky. University 91.7 FM).
Yep, same out here and I suspect same all over. :D

Ravon said:
Mainstream radio has always been geared to the teenybops.
Yep, because let's face it, it's a business and the teenybops are the ones who spend the lion's share of the purchasing money. In fact I've had a hypothesis for about 10 years now that something new has to come along every few years becasue the current generation of teenybops is gonna want their own generational sound and identity. It ain't cool to put on surf music at the sock hop when Purple Haze and White Rabbit are all over the airwaves. In fact even the sock hop format ain't cool anymore, y'know what I mean?
Ravon said:
But there is good new music out there, you just gotta know where to look
Word, bro. Pure truth.
National Public Radio's another one.
I find myself hoping that someday, when that guy who insists on thumping the bass in his SUV loud enough to be heard 3 blocks away is babysitting his grandchildren, they're gonna want to drive him nuts with old Yoko Ono records (or cd's) which have become valuable collector's items much like old blues records.
And guess who's gonna be sellin' em?
:D
Full disclaimer:
I LIKE Yoko. Always did, always will. If she was good enough for John that was good enough for me. In fact there's a comment in a documentary about the making of the Working Class Hero album that if it weren't for Yoko John just might have checked out on his own, he was that depressed and frustrated and close.
Helped him get "I Found Out", out.
One of the heaviest things he ever wrote.
And in fact she is just starting to get some respect as being w-a-a-ay ahead of her time. :wink:
 

Ridgemont

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I am a big Dave Van Ronk fan. After loving his music for a while, I finally got a hold of his "autobiography" (mainly in quotations since he died half-way through writing the book). He had a chapter dedicated to folk music and the history of the genre through the documented ages. He said that folk music (and I am paraphrasing here) was the art of story telling that was passed down from generation to generation. It was usually not written down, but instead, the younger generation learned it through hearing it and then adapting it to their own liking. It always told the story of love, or struggle, or some other monumentous task. Take a look at how many songs were sung about John Henry as a steel driving man.

Folk music is an oral history. Maybe not entirely accurate, but it usually describes the plight of the people. I appreciate that, both as a music lover, but also as someone who is very interested in music history and how it shaped our culture. The rhythmic devices used in the songs of those generations help paint a more complete picture of the struggles or hardships of the times. Whether it was a full piece band backing up Bessie Smith, or a plantation worker playing a set of spoons, these elements combined with the written word help us imagine the hardships that they faced and the type of audience they were trying to attract. I was not there, but every element of every song helps complete the story.

So where am I going with this? DVR continued the evolution of folk music to modern day street poets. This form of poetry, which described the hardships and inequalities of the streets, turned into hip-hop or rap music. It may be noise to some, but sometimes you have to read between the lines to understand the complete message. Prejudice. Inequality. The socio-economic class system that is there, but nobody wants to talk about. These are the messages that spurred rap and hip-hop, and the way that they are sung can bring about haunting vivid images if you just open your eyes. While more passive early groups such as Public Enemy, Run DMC, and Arrested Development were direct, the sub-genre of gangster rap (early to mid'90s) really started to become more aggressive with their message. So much that it did start to scare some suburbanites back into their homes. :wink: While every genre of music becomes diluted with garbage over time, you still hear the message of hardship in modern day hip-hop.

I just looked at my music collection. I have every genre of music from most decades of the last century. So I guess Ravon's assessment is correct. I will say that my interest in American music history and its impact in our culture is what eventually fueled me to pick up the guitar again after so many years.

EDIT: I do not have any country music from the past decade. The picture that stuff paints is shear crap. I will stick to Hank.
 

fronobulax

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Ridgemont said:
EDIT: I do not have any country music from the past decade. The picture that stuff paints is shear crap. I will stick to Hank.

Does it undercut your point if I say I laughed? Thank you.
 

guitarjamman

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Ridgemont, that post was completely dead on. Summed up beautifully....

Don't want to get into it too much, but I do listen to rap music quite a bit, but only the artists who put weight behind their lyrics. The mainstream artists (if they even deserve to be called that) who rely on heavy beat driven music with lyrics that are as deep as "let's party" over and over again do not deserve to be in the spot light. They aim at pleasing the average listener who does not care about deep metaphors or lyrical content, only about being able to get up and move to the music. Rave music i guess it would be called.

There is one artist who I respect greatly: Atmosphere. His music may not be for everyone but I wanted to post a youtube link to one of his songs that sums up his style perfectly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g__iDW904_k

It may be fast talking to some, but to me it is poetry describing the issues we all face on a daily basis. The video description types out the lyrics if you are interested.
 
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