Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??

[CajunBlues]

So, I have been invited to play my nylon string guitar for a solo perfromance on a wedding cocktail hour.... Ive seen a lot of guitarist these days using loop stations and/or backing tracks...

So what do you think, is this "cheating" ? Any and all opinions are welcome...

-- Sorry for the double post (I posted this on fender also), just thought I would get more thoughts here also from those who don't frequent the fender site.

 

[fronobulax]

As a purist I am all in favor of live musicians performing with each other. However, I don't expect my purity to last in the real world. Considering I've seen high school choruses in concert with a pre-recorded backing track, church choirs doing the same thing and a lot of fine guitar solos recorded over backing tracks on YouTube, I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the live performer is adding something worth adding. Just make sure that you don't spend so much time fiddling with equipment that the audience notices you are using it.

 

[Graham]

So what do you think, is this "cheating" ? Any and all opinions are welcome...

Cheating?

Ask Phil Keaggy and those that attend his shows if they think he's cheating! :lol: :lol:

 

[taabru45]

Not a fair comparison Graham....he's also missing a middle finger.....(if you don't know P.K. he is one of the best unplugged or otherwise)..Thanks for the reminder Graham...I love his stuff....Steffan

 

[jmac]

I think its lame to use loops or recordings.

 

[dapmdave]

I make my own backing tracks and recordings, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable trying to pass that off as a live performance. But a lot of people are doing it, and I suppose the general public has come to accept it.

Dave

 

[fronobulax]

I think its lame to use loops or recordings.

The thing that drove me away from my (similar) purist stand was economics. If something is not going to sound right without some kind of augmentation, and I don't have the budget to hire musicians to provide that augmentation then I would consider a backing track. The alternative would be to limit the performance to numbers that can be performed solo which may, or may not, be what is expected to appeal to the audience.

The "high ground" would be to have a set that you can perform solo, without tracks, that would still be appreciated by your audience. That may, or may not be possible, and may be more work than the gig is worth.

I'm presuming we are not talking about people who make loops and effects an integral part of their compositions and performance.

 

[idealassets]

Ask Phil Keaggy and those that attend his shows if they think he's cheating!

I'm impressed! I don't think its cheating. A salesman attempted to sell me a loop device long before I insisted on getting some of my other effects first, which are tuners, compressor, acoustasonic amp, and have returned one acoustic imageing unit so far to the store.

In my case I am attempting to improve my guitar proficiency more first. I am happy to work on my sound, finger technique, and tonal quality- for a long time before getting fancy with any looping, etc effects.

 

[adorshki]

Even though I'm kind of a "purist" myself, I think if it's your own stuff on the loops it's not cheating.
If it's pre-canned stuff, you shouldn't oughta even be on the stage.

 

[AlohaJoe]

I have been invited to play my nylon string guitar for a solo performance on a wedding cocktail hour

Here's my thoughts. for what it's worth...

I'd check with those hiring you, but since they asked you to play solo, they're likely just looking for some kind of musical 'atmosphere'. Odds are there will be no 'audience' as such, just folks milling around and talking loudly, with you as background music. Actually those are often fun gigs... no pressure and you can play what you like as long as it's not too loud. If you feel you can fill the time requested by yourself, I'd do that.

Generally, my take is: using pre-recorded backing tracks appropriately and tastefully can be OK as long as the client knows what to expect and you feel like you're getting paid enough to haul the extra gear. But proceed with caution, it can quickly introduce a 'loungy' feel that may not be appropriate for a wedding-related event.

 

[dtw927]

Is it cheating when we

amplify a guitar to reinforce or modify its sound?
use recording equipment / software to preserve music?
use fuzzboxes and other equipment to enhance or modify sound?
download music from YouTube to learn and enjoy?
use music software to enhance our practice time?
copying licks from others to create our own?

IMO these are all technologies that make us better musicians and enhance our enjoyment of the art. I am glad to use these and other devices to make my practice and performance more efficient and enjoyable.

 

[zulu]

hmmmmm, let me check the rule book... nope, not cheating.

 

[Graham]

hmmmmm, let me check the rule book... nope, not cheating.

Ah yes, when all else fails, consult the rule book.

Thanks zulu

 

[zulu]

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

We all have our own values and principals, when it comes to music.
I don't like to use effects or other pre recorded music when I play.
That's just me.

I'm not going to judge someone else if they do.
The final judgement will be the listening audience. If they like your music, you did good.

 

[RussD]

I'd check with those hiring you,

+1
Imho, It's all about pleasing your audience, not about whether someone uses a particular piece of equipment. If the sound they would enjoy most means we need a looper, use a looper.

 

[Zelja]

It takes a lot of skill to use a looper creatively, your timing needs to be spot on, both when playing & when setting the loops - it's quite difficult.

Phil Keaggy is a master as others have said & the young lass K. T. Tunstall also uses loopers to good effect - check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xANiW9yWvGE

BTW, who thinks The Who were cheating with their pre-recorded synth parts in "Won't get Fooled Again" & "Baba O'Riley"?

 

[SFIV1967]

Haha! Zelja, I thought you posted that one here from KT Tunstall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OniDp_FMUjU

It is so great because it shows what can go wrong in a live performance with a loop station! It really starts at about 1:05min! Afterwards a great performance of her!
Enjoy!
Ralf

 

[Ravon]

I'm sure many many performers use them. Kansas and Jethro Tull come to mind (showing my age) and a couple other bands I've seen that use them live, usually as lead-ins (?) and finales. I always assumed they were loops and not just a prerecorded tapes they were using. Great tool

 

[Zelja]

Haha! Zelja, I thought you posted that one here from KT Tunstall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OniDp_FMUjU

It is so great because it shows what can go wrong in a live performance with a loop station! It really starts at about 1:05min! Afterwards a great performance of her!
Enjoy!
Ralf

Hey Ralf,
That is a good clip to show things can be a trainwreck - she recovered well though. Imagine as some do, adding another loop half way through the song & stuffing that up!

I have a little Boss RC-2 looper & I find it hard sometimes just to get a proper 4 bar chord progression timed right such that it repeats at the exact right time. I think it's definitely harder to use a looper in this complex way live, where you are adding multiple loops as you go - it's a bit like tight rope walking - one slip & you're gone!