Should I buy this Newark St. Starfire III?

[Druschba]

As a complete Guild newbie, I venture my first thread. Recently I was able to play a Starfire III in a local store and was really taken with its sound. The playability was also really first class. Now I get the opportunity to buy a 4 year old Newark St. Starfire III in Cherry. The price would be 650 Euro with hardshell case. The private seller has hardly played the SFIII. The photos show no scratches. The seller wants to downsize privately and I suspect he can hardly find buyers for the Guild in the sticks where he lives.
It's not vintage or US-made, but would you guys still strike? Original price is 1400 Euro. I could unfortunately only try it out over Christmas, because the guy lives 850 km away near my family and only offers the guitar for self-pickup.

Thanks for your help guys

 

[gjmalcyon]

Welcome! Stick around - nice folks around here. While I do own a Newark Street Starfire IV-ST, I'm much more of an acoustic guy. The electric players will be along shortly with their thoughts.

 

[chazmo]

Welcome aboard, druschba!

That's a very pretty SF3. My only comment is that there are versions of the SF1, which is made in Indonesia, which might be cheaper for you than buying this SF3 used. I'm not sure what the differences are, but you can look at the guildguitars.com website to see the models.

Also, I don't know where you are located.

Bottom line for me, though, is that if you played this guitar and love it, you should go for it regardless of the cheaper SF1 model. I don't think the SF3s will go down in value anytime soon.

 

[GAD]

The Korean SFIII is a better guitar than the Indonesian SFIs.

That seems like a good price. Here’s my review of one from the same year:

2016 Guild Newark Street Starfire III | GAD's Ramblings

Having owned a few of the Newark Street series of guitars from Guild, I’d always been curious about the Starfire III, but I hadn’t ever bought one because I had a rather low price limit that I would pay and in over three years, I had never seen one available for that price. As you …

www.gad.net

 

[GGJaguar]

Welcome to LTG! I had a NS Starfire III and thought it was a very nice guitar. The price seems good for the one you are looking at, too.

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG from another "Oberbayer"!

And just to add to GAD's first class review:

NAMM 2013: Newark St. Collection electric models

NAMM 2013: Newark St.™ Collection electric models "Guild is proud to announce the Newark St. Collection, the return of eight classic Guild electric favorites from the 1950s and ’60s—once again putting the distinctive Guild styling and voice that helped shape popular music into the hands of...

letstalkguild.com

Ralf

 

[Druschba]

Thanks for all your opinions and hints. GAD's review was very helpful. Still I am not sure if the Starfire V might be another or better option, because this guitar and its tone (saw it live on stage only once) left a big impression. But since no shop has it here on stock, I only have some YouTube videos. Could you discribe in words how different they would sound?

 

[Prince of Darkness]

It should also be noted that the Starfire I and V both have centre blocks and the III does not.

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

Yep, pick it up! The Starfire III is more hollow and woody sounding, the Starfire V sounds more like a Gibson 335 but with a little more chime due to the Guild HB pickups. If you are a lead player, think Buddy Guy - the V is the choice, if you are more of a rhythm player (but want nice sounding leads when needed), the III is excellent. The Indonesian made Starfire I SC is cool too and more affordable, but they do not make it in red, and the Newark St builds and electronics are just better in general, better factory with more oversight. You won't regret it, and if it comes with a hard shell case that's a deal.

 

[Druschba]

I bought the Gitarre! However, I have not yet been able to test her. Since I get her only around Christmas time, but will move afterwards, I can give only at the end of January times a feedback. Tendentially, I think I should have tried the SF5 also yet, but unfortunately I know no one and no store that has them in stock. Well sometime. But I'm also really curious, do you know good songs and videos with the Newark Starfire III - quasi to "tune in"?

Thanks for your help, guys!

 

[GGJaguar]

Congratulations! I'm sure you will like it!

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

I bought the Gitarre! However, I have not yet been able to test her. Since I get her only around Christmas time, but will move afterwards, I can give only at the end of January times a feedback. Tendentially, I think I should have tried the SF5 also yet, but unfortunately I know no one and no store that has them in stock. Well sometime. But I'm also really curious, do you know good songs and videos with the Newark Starfire III - quasi to "tune in"?

Thanks for your help, guys!

Jerry Garcia recorded with the Starfire III on the Greatful Dead’s first album, and Norah Jones uses one as well.

 

[Norrissey]

Jerry Garcia recorded with the Starfire III on the Greatful Dead’s first album, and Norah Jones uses one as well.

Hi Dylan,
I'm curious how live performers like Jerry Garcia and Norah Jones and others avoid feedback with Starfire IIIs? Do they mod them in some way or do they just have to avoid certain areas in front of their amps?

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

How loud do you play?

I have a 61’ Starfire III but I don’t ‘crank it’. If you push the gain on your amp enough it will break up nicely and be extremely sensitive to your playing style the more you dig in. Nora and Jerry are (were) pretty gentile players. Starfires were invented during the time of low-wattage single speaker amps so a standard Fender Princeton/Blues Jr or something in that world would sound killer. I have a 28/14 watt Carr Rambler and it’s a match made in heaven. Oddly the Rambler is loosely based on an early 60’s Guild J66!

You could always put a black felt cloth or something soft like that inside the F holes, but be careful of the electronics and don’t force it. It may be easier to take the pickups off and put the cloth in through the pickup cavities since they are bigger and further away from the pots and wires. If it is a newer Starfire (Newark St.) you will have less of a feedback issue, probably because it is slightly less resonant then a vintage one due to the lacquer, also the Guild LB1 humbuckers are more quiet than the DeArmond single coils I have on my 61’. Just remember, stuffing the body would loose some of that woody mahogany sound that makes the Starfire III unique.

Alternatively the Fender-made DeArmond Starfire Special from 98-01’ is a Starfire III, but it has a block running through the center like a ES 335 / Starfire IV, and equipped with DeArmond single coils similar to my 61’. They are really nice and punchy but heavier in weight, and if feedback is your main concern I would just go with a Starfire IV/V/VI because they are made for lead players. Some of the late 70’s-80’s Starfire IV’s were equipped with DiMarzio SD’s or Guild XR7’s, totally built for high gain amp settings. To me, that’s really eliminating the purpose of an airy semi-hollow body though, but to each their own!

I also have a 2021 Starfire 1 in seafoam green. It has a smaller block inside below the bridge and it sounds like a hybrid between a III and a IV. The price is great too and the pickups split so you have a ton of tonal options, especially if you are trying to thin out the low end a little and get into some country chickin-pickin.

 

[Norrissey]

Thanks for that great info Dylan. I don't play that loud most of the time so it's never been an issue for me with my '64 and '75 Starfire IIs, I was just curious about it. When I play very loud I am usually using my S-100 anyway so it's not a problem : )

 

[DrumBob]

Willkomen! Ich bin sehr zufrieden mit meinem Newark Street Starfire IV. Koreanisch-verruckte Guilds sind extrem gut gemacht, Ich wurde nicht zorgern.

Ich habe kein umlaut!

 

[rbrcbr]

Hi Dylan,
I'm curious how live performers like Jerry Garcia and Norah Jones and others avoid feedback with Starfire IIIs? Do they mod them in some way or do they just have to avoid certain areas in front of their amps?

Dylan pretty much covered it, but i'll chime in as I've never really understood the general disdain fully hollow guitars get that surrounds feedback. My take is that the dudes complaining about are guys trying to play a Starfire III or Casino through a cranked Marshall stack, trying to get the same sound they'd get out of a tele, strat, or 335 and frustrated that it won't do "their thing" that they're used to. Hollowbody feedback is an awesome thing and manipulating it is fun and a way to mess around with to live performance dynamics. If you're playing with overdrive/fuzz/distortion at a show through a hollowbody and upset about potential feedback, get a different guitar.

I've got a '62 Starfire III that I've played live a number of times and generally haven't had issues with feedback, if anything it's more prone to feedback in small spaces with loud volumes, ie. rehearsal spaces where you're packed in with a 4 piece band and everything is bouncing off the walls. Through a cranked champ, or a fairly turned up Princeton Reverb I haven't really had issues. Through my Super Reverb in my room, it'll feedback pretty quickly if I'm too close and turned towards the amp.

Tip one: get a band that knows how to play quiet if you're in a confined space. With the right players in a small space this shouldn't be an issue. Dynamics are your friend.
Tip two: monitor your guitar signal directly from your amp, pointed at you from side stage. If really necessary, depending on the setup, monitor everything else through a monitor pointed at your fretting hand/guitar neck and not the body of the guitar. Stage monitors pointed at your guitar will increase potential for feedback due to resonance so keeping your monitoring to just your amp or pointed away from the hollow guitar will help that (same applies to acoustic guitars).
Tip three: embrace the feedback at loud volumes - just know how to manipulate based on where you are standing in relation to your amp.
Tip four: use less distortion....not everything needs to be through a dimed tweed amp or a twin reverb with a cranked fuzz face in front of it, your hearing will thank you down the line

It's easier for me to say because I'm mostly playing clean psychedelic fingerstyle stuff, with the occasionally noisy sections using an overdrive or a distortion for added effect, all swirled up with delay and reverb. Those feedback moments mixed in with all that are just another tool in your pallet for live use, but I suppose this is all depending on what kind of music you're playing.

And if you're really still worried about it, buy something like this: https://reverb.com/item/4793398-guild-1959-ce-100-dougs-plugs-f-hole-feedback-control

 

[Norrissey]

Dylan pretty much covered it, but i'll chime in as I've never really understood the general disdain fully hollow guitars get that surrounds feedback.

Great info and suggestions! Thank you!

 

[Teleguy61]

Good luck, and welcome!

 

[johnreardon]

Hi Dylan,
I'm curious how live performers like Jerry Garcia and Norah Jones and others avoid feedback with Starfire IIIs? Do they mod them in some way or do they just have to avoid certain areas in front of their amps?

Back in the 60s, I used a Slim Jim, which was a hollow body, similar in size to the Starfire III, without the Bigsby. I never modded mine and managed to control feedback at quite loud volumes. This live recording was from 1966, when I used a Selmer Treble 'n' Bass 50. Excuse the quality, it was recorded at the back of the hall on a small reel to reel. This audio was taken from a cassette of the reel to reel, which is sadly lost.



Later on I used the same guitar through a Marshall 100w head driving an 8x10 cabinet & a Carslboro 100w head driving two 4x12 PA Columns, using a split lead. As you can see in the pics, I was quite close to my amp and LOUD.

Feedback can be controlled