OK, I Need a Humidifier

[GAD]

Why am I not surprised that you would have the ability to data-log relative-humidity variations over long periods of time?

In six rooms and outside!

I like data.

 

[twocorgis]

In my experience with my Moist-Air whole house, the hygrometer built in is remarkably accurate. I keep hygrometers both upstairs and down, and they're always within a point or two of each other.

 

[merlin6666]

So on New Years Eve our furnace stopped working and we have been living in a house barely heated to about 13C with a couple of electric heaters that frequently triggered the breakers. Today a new furnace got installed and I also included an evaporative humidifier. It's been running for about an hour now and humidity is around 34% (compared to about 10% without). I will see how high I can push it.

 

[GAD]

So three days in and I’m pretty happy with it. I’ve left it on low and it has kept the room hovering around 50% with the door closed. Compared with the room across the hall that’s a good 10-20 points lower and I’d say it’s doing exactly what I want it to do.

Here’s the humidified room since turning on the Venta:



The spikes and valleys are from the heat turning off/on and from me opening the door.

Here is the room across the hall over the same time period:



It’s been rainy over the last week so I fully expect this room to drop into the teens when and if it dries out more.

Since my goal is to keep the acoustics in the 40-60% range I think it’s doing a great job so far. Based on it’s water consumption thus far it will last 4 days between fills given it’s run rate and ambient condition (both of which may of course change).

The best parts to me are the fact that it uses tap water (though requires an additive), doesn’t leave white residue, and most importantly doesn’t spray mist that ends up soaking the area in front of it. Also on low I don’t even hear it.

It was expensive at $250, but so far it’s much better than any other portable humidifier I’ve experienced.

Kudos to @awagner for the recommendation!

 

[GGJaguar]

it has kept the room hovering around 50% with the door closed

That's great! Just out of curiosity, what is the average temperature in that room?

 

[geoguy]

Congrats, sounds like it was a good purchase.

FYI, I believe that 40 or 45% would be considered suitable for acoustic guitars. IMO, 60% is too high.

 

[GAD]

In my experience with my Moist-Air whole house, the hygrometer built in is remarkably accurate. I keep hygrometers both upstairs and down, and they're always within a point or two of each other.

Electronic hygrometers are pretty easy to make and are simple in principle, so the majority of them should be fairly accurate. I believed the discrepancy between the readings on the Venta and the readings from my probe are due to the fact that the Venta is on the floor and is thus about four feet lower, but then discovered that unintuitively (at least to me) humid air is lighter than dry air so the floor should be less humid than higher levels in the room.

I would have thought that humid air is heavier, but the water vapor displaces air which makes the air less dense which makes the air rise, and water vapor is also less dense than air so it rises as well. I mean, I guess that's how we get clouds...

anyway my sensors have a published accuracy of +/-2% when between 10-90%RH and up to 4% when outside that range.

Now I feel like I need three sensors in the room: floor/middle/ceiling.

 

[GAD]

That's great! Just out of curiosity, what is the average temperature in that room?

It varies over the course of the day and weather.

Here’s correlating temp/RH data:

 

[GAD]

I've toyed with moving everything to the basement which has much more stable temps, but the humidy swings are much greater - especially in the summer:

 

[GAD]

My biggest problem with the basement is that there are a million pipes in the ceiling and one good plumbing leak could cause a lot of damage.

 

[GGJaguar]

one good plumbing leak could cause a lot of damage.

Or Nor'easter or hurricane.

 

[GGJaguar]

Here’s correlating temp/RH data:

Thanks! I love data.

 

[GAD]

Congrats, sounds like it was a good purchase.

FYI, I believe that 40 or 45% would be considered suitable for acoustic guitars. IMO, 60% is too high.

Maintaining a constant RH is a practical impossibility without a sealed room at constant temp. I'm not looking for a room that's a constant 60%; I'm looking for a room that fluctuates between 40-60%. I set my alerts so that if it gets to 40 or 60 then I need to take action. Here in NJ the temp and RH swings are too extreme for any more control than that IMO.

FWIW:

• Taylor recommends 45-55%: https://www.taylorguitars.com/support/maintenance/symptoms-wet-guitar
• Sweetwater says 40-50%: https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/the-ideal-humidity-for-guitar/
• Acoustic Guitar Mag says 50% at 70 degrees: https://acousticguitar.com/ask-the-expert-how-to-cure-your-guitars-wintertime-humidity-blues/
• Martin says 50% is good: https://www.martinguitar.com/on/dem...ibrary/default/pdf/2020-humidity-bulletin.pdf
• etc.

While I clearly love to over-analyze things, trying to keep a room to within a +/-10% range of RH is a recipe for madness, especially when so many sources can't agree on what perfect humidity is. If the guitar goes to 60% for a couple of days then drops back down to 50% I'm not worried about it. If I can somehow manage to keep it between 45%-55% or then I'll tighten up the alerts, but I doubt that will happen.

Remember, I've got experience with a room full of guitars where the humidity was too high: https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/index.php?threads/trouble-in-the-northern-vault.204042/

 

[merlin6666]

I assume you are aware that RH is a function of temperature. If you are nerdy you can calculate the total amount of moisture from

Absolute Humidity Calculator

Calculate the absolute humidity from temperature and relative humidity.

www.omnicalculator.com

then multiply that with the room volume in m^3 and plot over time for comparison with the water consumption.

 

[kitniyatran]

Gee I always thought RH was genetic, inherited from the parents.

 

[Nuuska]

Gee I always thought RH was genetic, inherited from the parents.

It could also describe how drunk Auntie Mary and Cousin Jeff are

 

[steve488]

I assume you are aware that RH is a function of temperature. If you are nerdy you can calculate the total amount of moisture from

Absolute Humidity Calculator

Calculate the absolute humidity from temperature and relative humidity.

www.omnicalculator.com

then multiply that with the room volume in m^3 and plot over time for comparison with the water consumption.

Confirmed - RH = Relative Humidity because it is related to the temperature. 50% RH says the air is holding 50% of the moisture it could at this temperature. 95% - 100% RH is difficult to measure as that is where condensation occurs with just a little temperature variation.

 

[GAD]

Congrats, sounds like it was a good purchase.

FYI, I believe that 40 or 45% would be considered suitable for acoustic guitars. IMO, 60% is too high.

Just wanted to update on this since I ended up lowering the settings because the humidifier works so well that the humidity was almost obnoxiously high.



My goal now is to keep the room in the 35-45% range which matches up more closely with your comment.

Also, my 3D printing stuff is in there and a lot of the filament is hydroscopic so a moist environment is bad. I can’t win.

I’ve also added an oil-based space heater to the room with it set to 62 degrees because this room is over the garage and the garage just sucks all the heat out through the floor at night when the heat is turned off. Before and after the heater:



Note there is a different time scale on this graph vs. the previous one.

Acoustic guitars are a PITA.

 

[fronobulax]

Acoustic guitars are a PITA.

Just ask a dealer in the Northeast with tens of thousands of dollars worth of inventory.

 

[geoguy]

I suspect that GAD also has tens of thousands of dollars of inventory in this room, between guitars & a 3D printer.

Graphing the extreme high & low values in red is a nice touch.