FNG
Enlightened Member
I don't understand why he waited until the last minute to make all those changes. Seems a little fishy. What a maroon... :lol:
Now here's a rare sweetheart of a Guild!
- Thread starter dreadnut
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GardMan
Enlightened Member
Hey Kurt...
that's a tough one. Part of me says it's a contract, and he should live up to it. On the other hand, I might ask for documentation of his attempts with eBay to get a reserve and BIN instated on the auction, including their advice that buyers would be williing to cancel. If he can document that he made such attempts, and they were timely (not in the last X hours of the auction?), I might let him off the hook. A third option... ask yourself how high you were willing to go, and make him an offer (taking into account your maximum and perhaps the previous high bid that was cancelled).
Good luck with the resolution... hope you will be celebrating a new addition to your collection.
Dave
that's a tough one. Part of me says it's a contract, and he should live up to it. On the other hand, I might ask for documentation of his attempts with eBay to get a reserve and BIN instated on the auction, including their advice that buyers would be williing to cancel. If he can document that he made such attempts, and they were timely (not in the last X hours of the auction?), I might let him off the hook. A third option... ask yourself how high you were willing to go, and make him an offer (taking into account your maximum and perhaps the previous high bid that was cancelled).
Good luck with the resolution... hope you will be celebrating a new addition to your collection.
Dave
I tend to agree with Effin. This guy was letting the auction ride never expecting it to end that low, when it got close to crunch time he paniced and tried to unsuccessfully end the auction. How could he have not known that there was no reserve for many days and not be able to cancel the auction? Auctions are ended early all the time, just watch a Michaels Music auction when the item is underbid............ooops! It's mysteriously gone!
That's a tough call bro, one side of me is saying show mercy on the fool, and the other is giving the thumbs down. You won't see the guitar either way, not for 2125.00, that's for sure.
A while back I won an auction for a Gibby at a ridiculously low price, I'm talking actually feeling guilty it was so low. I don't know if the listing was lost in a black hole of ebay or what, but it was 1/8th of the guitars value. Sure enough, I received an email from the seller......."Very sorry but the guitar was knocked over and broken by my young son". So, I emailed back and told him to show me the pics. Never heard back from him.
That's a tough call bro, one side of me is saying show mercy on the fool, and the other is giving the thumbs down. You won't see the guitar either way, not for 2125.00, that's for sure.
A while back I won an auction for a Gibby at a ridiculously low price, I'm talking actually feeling guilty it was so low. I don't know if the listing was lost in a black hole of ebay or what, but it was 1/8th of the guitars value. Sure enough, I received an email from the seller......."Very sorry but the guitar was knocked over and broken by my young son". So, I emailed back and told him to show me the pics. Never heard back from him.
Good luck Grot, but after some of the dealings I've had with E-gay and Paypal I'd guess your gonna be disappointed. Stupid seller :x
West R Lee
Venerated Member
OK, now it's making sense.
For whatever reason, I think this guy thought all along he'd get $4000 or $5000 for that guitar. Now if there was a problem with the listing, and it was a 3 day listing, he had a generous amount of time to correct it. Heck, it stayed at like $300 for over 2 days!
Then came crunch time and the big bucks ain't happening, so he frantically tried at the last minute to put in a reserve and a BIN, and cancelled all his bids to that point. He was able to list the BIN, but not the reserve price. Once he cleared all the existing bids, they started coming in again from those who were watching, or in Kurt's case......sniping.
The seller screwed up.....it's Kurt's guitar.....and I seriously doubt that eBay told the guy to cancel his existing bids......I think he did that accidentally. Why cancel all existing bids? Can you NOT post a reserve once bids have come in? And do you have to cancel them to post a reserve? But it still NEVER posted a reserve in the listing after the change? Wouldn't it have been better to leave the existing bids up if you could post a reserve after they were placed? I do think he'll take the feedback and rating hit before he'll let her go though Kurt......we'll see.
Does that make sense?
West
For whatever reason, I think this guy thought all along he'd get $4000 or $5000 for that guitar. Now if there was a problem with the listing, and it was a 3 day listing, he had a generous amount of time to correct it. Heck, it stayed at like $300 for over 2 days!
Then came crunch time and the big bucks ain't happening, so he frantically tried at the last minute to put in a reserve and a BIN, and cancelled all his bids to that point. He was able to list the BIN, but not the reserve price. Once he cleared all the existing bids, they started coming in again from those who were watching, or in Kurt's case......sniping.
The seller screwed up.....it's Kurt's guitar.....and I seriously doubt that eBay told the guy to cancel his existing bids......I think he did that accidentally. Why cancel all existing bids? Can you NOT post a reserve once bids have come in? And do you have to cancel them to post a reserve? But it still NEVER posted a reserve in the listing after the change? Wouldn't it have been better to leave the existing bids up if you could post a reserve after they were placed? I do think he'll take the feedback and rating hit before he'll let her go though Kurt......we'll see.
Does that make sense?
West
GuildFS4612CE
Senior Member
- Joined
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The seller can have official 'transcripts' of his 'chats' sent to his email...if they indeed show that he spent the week trying to get a reserve and buy it now price to show and fleabay failed to do so...well, more than likely fleabay has a 'limited liability' clause or two in it's small print...
You could offer him what your original maximum was...the way the economy is going you might get it, though not right away...he'll probably try and relist it first.
If seller cannot provide any such records, well, then, he is what he appears he is...
In which case I suppose you could hire a lawyer to sue for breach of contract...probably have to be filed in his home state...cost more than the guitar...little chance of collecting on a judgement...risk of him setting the guitar on fire rather than letting you get it... :roll:
You can try to intimidate him, carefully. Stick to business. Quote fleabay rules. Less said the better. At the least, don't agree to cancel and let him eat the final value fees, get stuck with a non-performance strike, and negative feedback.
None of which will get you the guitar.
fleabay can and does pull all kinds of stunts...in another thread I mentioned how I watched them, during a 'chat', cook the books and 'adjust' my acct rather than refund my credit balance. If it turns out to actually be fleabays doing, while not likely, there is a remote possibility, you might try to 'guilt' him into cooperating with you at the price you are willing to pay.
Or just let it go.
I'd be real careful sending him any money...you could find yourself out the cash and the guitar...actually, the only safe way to pay him would be via credit card through playpal so you could do a chargeback if the deal goes sour.
It's too bad fleabay chose to drive off most of the experienced sellers and replace them with 'newbies'.
You could offer him what your original maximum was...the way the economy is going you might get it, though not right away...he'll probably try and relist it first.
If seller cannot provide any such records, well, then, he is what he appears he is...
In which case I suppose you could hire a lawyer to sue for breach of contract...probably have to be filed in his home state...cost more than the guitar...little chance of collecting on a judgement...risk of him setting the guitar on fire rather than letting you get it... :roll:
You can try to intimidate him, carefully. Stick to business. Quote fleabay rules. Less said the better. At the least, don't agree to cancel and let him eat the final value fees, get stuck with a non-performance strike, and negative feedback.
None of which will get you the guitar.
fleabay can and does pull all kinds of stunts...in another thread I mentioned how I watched them, during a 'chat', cook the books and 'adjust' my acct rather than refund my credit balance. If it turns out to actually be fleabays doing, while not likely, there is a remote possibility, you might try to 'guilt' him into cooperating with you at the price you are willing to pay.
Or just let it go.
I'd be real careful sending him any money...you could find yourself out the cash and the guitar...actually, the only safe way to pay him would be via credit card through playpal so you could do a chargeback if the deal goes sour.
It's too bad fleabay chose to drive off most of the experienced sellers and replace them with 'newbies'.
West R Lee
Venerated Member
That is another option Kurt.......offer the next bump over the highest bid he actually had. I've got documentation of that somewhere I think.....but it was just over $2600....$2631.09 
to be exact. Thing is, you should have all of the valid documentation behind you.
Under "Bid Retraction and Cancellation History" from the actual auction: (Still showing you as the winning bidder I might add)
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0317695884
I think he screwed up and you both know it. An offer just over his highest bid might get you the guitar. Still probably a fair deal pricewise for you depending on the condition of the guitar, it might make him feel as if he's saved face and his pride and pocketbook might remain intact . If you decide to make him another offer, or even if you don't, be sure in your communication with him to let him know that you have a friend and eBay member that watched every second of the last 7 minutes of that auction. I do think you're perfectly within your rights to insist he see this through though, problem is....you might lose the guitar that way. Having been a member since '99, but with only 5 transactions and no sales (not exactly making a living on eBay), I just think he'll eat the bad feedback to keep the guitar and try and resell one day.
BTW Kurt, For the record, Mrs. West says not to offer one penny more than your winning bid, and to insist on receiving your guitar. Keep us posted on this one Grot, I think we're all interested and might learn something.
West
to be exact. Thing is, you should have all of the valid documentation behind you.Under "Bid Retraction and Cancellation History" from the actual auction: (Still showing you as the winning bidder I might add)
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0317695884
I think he screwed up and you both know it. An offer just over his highest bid might get you the guitar. Still probably a fair deal pricewise for you depending on the condition of the guitar, it might make him feel as if he's saved face and his pride and pocketbook might remain intact . If you decide to make him another offer, or even if you don't, be sure in your communication with him to let him know that you have a friend and eBay member that watched every second of the last 7 minutes of that auction. I do think you're perfectly within your rights to insist he see this through though, problem is....you might lose the guitar that way. Having been a member since '99, but with only 5 transactions and no sales (not exactly making a living on eBay), I just think he'll eat the bad feedback to keep the guitar and try and resell one day.
BTW Kurt, For the record, Mrs. West says not to offer one penny more than your winning bid, and to insist on receiving your guitar. Keep us posted on this one Grot, I think we're all interested and might learn something.
West
The Guilds of Grot
Enlightened Member
Well as you all sumized, I am "F'd" on this deal! :twisted:
Here is the email I sent to their response posted earlier in the thread;
Sorry to take so long to respond to you as I had to do some research to totally comprehend where I stood on this issue. I have a friend who also watched this auction end and has verified that he saw the same actions transpire that I did.
You claim that you wanted a "But it now" and a "Reserve" on this auction. The auction was posted for numerous days. You should have seen right away that it was not posted correctly. You had plenty of time to either cancel the auction or revise it.
In reality what happened is with under 7 minutes remaining in the auction you cancelled the bids but not the auction. In the minutes remaining you managed to get the "Buy it now" in place but failed to get your reserve in place before the auction ended.
The auction was not "ended early" as you claim. It went to the end with new bids, and I had the last and highest bid. That is documented here;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SA:US:1123
It say's "bidding has ended for this item" not that the auction has been ended early.
It also say's that I won the auction.
I am not responsible for any errors or mistakes you made with your auction.
I have won the guitar for $2125.00 by the rules of ebay. Please send me a Paypal invoice for that amount.
Thanks,
Kurt
Here's what the b*stard sent back;
I had a statement contained within the listing that I reserved the right to end the auction at any time if the guitar sold.
this is what I did, if you have any further questions please direct them to ebay, I will not take your payment, ebay is aware that there were problems with the auction from their end and has approved / advised me of these decisions. please contact them with any further questions.
Now when did they sell the guitar locally and end the auction early?
So I replied as so;
I'm sorry but when did you sell the sell the guitar before the auction ended? And when did you end the auction early? I don't see where either of those two things ever happened.
Once again, obviously the auction did not end early. Otherwise my "EZ Snipe" would never have had the chance to enter a bid. The auction ran the full term as evidenced by this ebay page;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SA:US:1123
How can you continue to out and out lie to me because you decided to alter your auction at the last minute.
You don't even have enough respect to sign your name to your e-mails.
You're making it very difficult to do business with you,
Kurt
Went to see what ebay said and they closed the case as soon as I "declined the seller's request to cancel the transaction". What kind of crap is that?
I know, I know, Jane warned us all of this!
Here is the email I sent to their response posted earlier in the thread;
Sorry to take so long to respond to you as I had to do some research to totally comprehend where I stood on this issue. I have a friend who also watched this auction end and has verified that he saw the same actions transpire that I did.
You claim that you wanted a "But it now" and a "Reserve" on this auction. The auction was posted for numerous days. You should have seen right away that it was not posted correctly. You had plenty of time to either cancel the auction or revise it.
In reality what happened is with under 7 minutes remaining in the auction you cancelled the bids but not the auction. In the minutes remaining you managed to get the "Buy it now" in place but failed to get your reserve in place before the auction ended.
The auction was not "ended early" as you claim. It went to the end with new bids, and I had the last and highest bid. That is documented here;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SA:US:1123
It say's "bidding has ended for this item" not that the auction has been ended early.
It also say's that I won the auction.
I am not responsible for any errors or mistakes you made with your auction.
I have won the guitar for $2125.00 by the rules of ebay. Please send me a Paypal invoice for that amount.
Thanks,
Kurt
Here's what the b*stard sent back;
I had a statement contained within the listing that I reserved the right to end the auction at any time if the guitar sold.
this is what I did, if you have any further questions please direct them to ebay, I will not take your payment, ebay is aware that there were problems with the auction from their end and has approved / advised me of these decisions. please contact them with any further questions.
Now when did they sell the guitar locally and end the auction early?
So I replied as so;
I'm sorry but when did you sell the sell the guitar before the auction ended? And when did you end the auction early? I don't see where either of those two things ever happened.
Once again, obviously the auction did not end early. Otherwise my "EZ Snipe" would never have had the chance to enter a bid. The auction ran the full term as evidenced by this ebay page;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SA:US:1123
How can you continue to out and out lie to me because you decided to alter your auction at the last minute.
You don't even have enough respect to sign your name to your e-mails.
You're making it very difficult to do business with you,
Kurt
Went to see what ebay said and they closed the case as soon as I "declined the seller's request to cancel the transaction". What kind of crap is that?
I know, I know, Jane warned us all of this!
West R Lee
Venerated Member
I don't understand why he didn't just end his auction early if he was afraid he wasn't going to get enough for the guitar? He does say in his listing that he reserved the right to do that, but he didn't. Inexperience I guess.....he hadn't really thought this one through. Sorry Kurt, but you do have 86 others you can play..........I know that's not much consolation though. Man, I'm really impressed with that huge hammer eBay swings!!!!!
West
West
Be glad he didn't get your money, and let it go.
The only thing I can suggest is ask the seller for his phone number and try talking to him to see if there's any deal to be worked. It may have gotten to adversarial for that at this point, but you never know.
I think this seller isn't the sharpest knife in the kitchen, Kurt. eBay sucks. They shouldn't be on this guy's side, but I'm not surprised.
The only thing I can suggest is ask the seller for his phone number and try talking to him to see if there's any deal to be worked. It may have gotten to adversarial for that at this point, but you never know.
I think this seller isn't the sharpest knife in the kitchen, Kurt. eBay sucks. They shouldn't be on this guy's side, but I'm not surprised.
I would get an attorney to send this guy a letter demanding that he honor the contract. You might be surprised at what the threat of litigation will do. Shouldn't set you back much for just the letter. The guy is clearly in the wrong from a legal standpoint.
A letter from an attorney - especially if it's a friend who will do it pro bono is a great idea, if only to bust the seller a little. When I had my "dispute", believe it or not I got pretty good help from eBay by calling them up. If you go through the "resolution center" links, you eventually get their phone number. Worth a try, and won't cost you anything.
walrus
walrus
The Guilds of Grot
Enlightened Member
And on it goes...
So taking Walrus' advice, (sort of) I emailed him the following;
Please be advised that I have consulted with my lawyer and he will working with ebay to prove the fraud you have perpetrated by changing your story to claiming that you ended the auction early.
The first piece of evidence is the auction posting does not mention an early auction ending;
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0317695884
It reads that the auction went to the full term.
The second piece of evidence is the bid history;
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0317695884
As you can see, my bid was registered at 13:38:23 and the auction ended at 13:38:27. That shows that the auction ran till closing and that you did not in fact, end it early.
You should have realized this evidence is posted before you decided to use this "early ending" story.
I will be pursuing this issue to the furthest extent of the law.
Kurt
I have recieved no reply.
However!
I talked to ebay (Roger) live on the phone today and it was refreshing to hear that indeed West was correct on all counts. In fact, he apparently cancelled the bids three times thinking he was cancelling the auction. Roger also confirmed the last minute, "Buy it now" addition. He said obviously this guy was very confused as to how ebay worked but indeed I WON THE GUITAR!!!
So what can I do to get it? Nothing! :evil:
I have two recourses;
First is I can leave him negative feedback.
Second is to report him to ebay explaining what happened and he might possibly have his account suspended.
Woo-hoo! :?
So before I do either of these I did this;
Hello again,
My Lawyer has contacted ebay and talked to a Roger there and now we have the whole story.
While you may think that you canceled the auction, in fact all you did was cancel the bids. Apparently you did this three times. Roger also confirmed that you did indeed at the last minute install a "Buy it now". He said it looked like you were very confused as to how ebay worked.
According to ebay, this auction was never ended early, and did indeed go for it's full length and that I was the winner of the guitar.
Unfortunately, since you are failing to agree to honor ebay's rules and sell me the guitar that I won fair and square, you are forcing me to take further action.
Ebay has offered me two courses of action.
First is to leave you extremely negative feedback about how this auction transpired.
Second is to report you to ebay for failing to sell me a fairly won guitar which will result in you being banned from ebay.
Ebay suggested that before I do either of these things, I contact you one last time to see if you would follow though on the auction and sell me the guitar for the winning amount.
Would you be interested in doing that?
Thanks,
Kurt
Figured it was worth one more shot before I nail this idiot to the wall!
Stay tuned...
So taking Walrus' advice, (sort of) I emailed him the following;
Please be advised that I have consulted with my lawyer and he will working with ebay to prove the fraud you have perpetrated by changing your story to claiming that you ended the auction early.
The first piece of evidence is the auction posting does not mention an early auction ending;
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0317695884
It reads that the auction went to the full term.
The second piece of evidence is the bid history;
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0317695884
As you can see, my bid was registered at 13:38:23 and the auction ended at 13:38:27. That shows that the auction ran till closing and that you did not in fact, end it early.
You should have realized this evidence is posted before you decided to use this "early ending" story.
I will be pursuing this issue to the furthest extent of the law.
Kurt
I have recieved no reply.
However!
I talked to ebay (Roger) live on the phone today and it was refreshing to hear that indeed West was correct on all counts. In fact, he apparently cancelled the bids three times thinking he was cancelling the auction. Roger also confirmed the last minute, "Buy it now" addition. He said obviously this guy was very confused as to how ebay worked but indeed I WON THE GUITAR!!!
So what can I do to get it? Nothing! :evil:
I have two recourses;
First is I can leave him negative feedback.
Second is to report him to ebay explaining what happened and he might possibly have his account suspended.
Woo-hoo! :?
So before I do either of these I did this;
Hello again,
My Lawyer has contacted ebay and talked to a Roger there and now we have the whole story.
While you may think that you canceled the auction, in fact all you did was cancel the bids. Apparently you did this three times. Roger also confirmed that you did indeed at the last minute install a "Buy it now". He said it looked like you were very confused as to how ebay worked.
According to ebay, this auction was never ended early, and did indeed go for it's full length and that I was the winner of the guitar.
Unfortunately, since you are failing to agree to honor ebay's rules and sell me the guitar that I won fair and square, you are forcing me to take further action.
Ebay has offered me two courses of action.
First is to leave you extremely negative feedback about how this auction transpired.
Second is to report you to ebay for failing to sell me a fairly won guitar which will result in you being banned from ebay.
Ebay suggested that before I do either of these things, I contact you one last time to see if you would follow though on the auction and sell me the guitar for the winning amount.
Would you be interested in doing that?
Thanks,
Kurt
Figured it was worth one more shot before I nail this idiot to the wall!
Stay tuned...
I like you, Kurt - you remind me of me Go for it! And thanks for keeping us posted.
Go for it! And thanks for keeping us posted.
Nice! You have proven the worst of Ebay, though - they agree that you won, but you can't do anything about it, and they won't help you. The seller can probably just start a new account after he is "banned". I love the fact that at least you have the seller a little nervous with your "attorney" talk...let him sweat a little!
walrus
walrus
This story may have some relevance to the current situation:
Sometime back in 2004, I was the high bidder on a set of factory alloy wheels/rims for a '93 Lincoln Mark VIII. Payment was sent off, and acknowledged. I waited a month, two months, three months, nothing shows up (large/heavy boxes tend to travel really slow across the US/Canada border). I tried file a complaint with eBay, but eBay stated that the time period for starting the dispute process was over (45 day limit. later extended, I think). Same story with Paypal. Figured that I was out $400.00 or so.
A few days later, saw an online news article that mentioned fraud.org. Logged onto fraud.org, and was able to make a complaint there. On that site, they also suggested that going to the US Postal Inspector's site (somewhere on the USPS.com website; don't remember where exactly) and lodging a complaint there. Evidently the seller was not the most upstanding citizen, and my complaint may have triggered something, because they got back to me 3-4 days later via email, and requested that I provide details and any supporting documentation. Wrote up the story as I saw it, and provided screen shots of the ebay listing and the Paypal reciepts to prove payment. They prosecuted the case, I got my wheels/rims after about 5 months, the seller got 6 months for Interstate Mail Fraud, along with a federal criminal conviction.
I don't know if the US Postal Inspector will take on your case, but you might want to try. You may want to also lodge a complaint with fraud.org. From what I read on the US Postal Inspector's site, they have jurisdiction over internet sales as well as regular mail/mail order sales.
Kostas
Sometime back in 2004, I was the high bidder on a set of factory alloy wheels/rims for a '93 Lincoln Mark VIII. Payment was sent off, and acknowledged. I waited a month, two months, three months, nothing shows up (large/heavy boxes tend to travel really slow across the US/Canada border). I tried file a complaint with eBay, but eBay stated that the time period for starting the dispute process was over (45 day limit. later extended, I think). Same story with Paypal. Figured that I was out $400.00 or so.
A few days later, saw an online news article that mentioned fraud.org. Logged onto fraud.org, and was able to make a complaint there. On that site, they also suggested that going to the US Postal Inspector's site (somewhere on the USPS.com website; don't remember where exactly) and lodging a complaint there. Evidently the seller was not the most upstanding citizen, and my complaint may have triggered something, because they got back to me 3-4 days later via email, and requested that I provide details and any supporting documentation. Wrote up the story as I saw it, and provided screen shots of the ebay listing and the Paypal reciepts to prove payment. They prosecuted the case, I got my wheels/rims after about 5 months, the seller got 6 months for Interstate Mail Fraud, along with a federal criminal conviction.
I don't know if the US Postal Inspector will take on your case, but you might want to try. You may want to also lodge a complaint with fraud.org. From what I read on the US Postal Inspector's site, they have jurisdiction over internet sales as well as regular mail/mail order sales.
Kostas
There's an old saying: "Never pi$$ off your waiter before the food arrives."
Lots of insurance, Kurt. Lest it arrive gouged, cracked, and defecated upon.
Good luck! We're all on your side.
BTW: Does eBay offer an online tutorial to newbies?
Lots of insurance, Kurt. Lest it arrive gouged, cracked, and defecated upon.
Good luck! We're all on your side.
BTW: Does eBay offer an online tutorial to newbies?
West R Lee
Venerated Member
Guildmark said:
:shock: That thought had crossed my mind too Mark. Seller never mentions the condition in the listing, but does state "No cracks or repairs" in the Q and A. I'd be afraid he'd finally give in and send the guitar, but not after it developed some very recent and severe buckle rash.
West
West R Lee
Venerated Member
:shock: :lol: Wow, just checked his feedback Kurt.............I've never seen an eBay seller with a rating of ZERO! :wink:
West
West