New Starfire bass with 2 pups

[ric426]

I emailed Jason at BSO asking about the winding length of the Pyramid short scale set and he didn't give a measurement, but said that the short scale Pyramids are longer than most short scale strings so that they work work basses like Hofners and Starfires. Don't know if that's the case, but I ordered a set today, so I guess I'll find out. Either way they should work with my alternate bridge because the string anchors are closer to the saddles.

 

[mellowgerman]

Also, it the windings extend past the nut, you could just take a razor blade to the silk windings like our favorite starfire slinging artists supposedly used to in the 60's

 

[ric426]

No, I'm not allowed to play with sharp objects. Couldn't burn it off either. Same rules for fire. :wink-new:

I'd probably have to gnaw off the extra silk...

 

[mellowgerman]

Either way, those are all perfectly acceptable excess silk winding amelioration methods

 

[bassman10096]

I emailed Jason at BSO asking about the winding length of the Pyramid short scale set and he didn't give a measurement, but said that the short scale Pyramids are longer than most short scale strings so that they work work basses like Hofners and Starfires. Don't know if that's the case, but I ordered a set today, so I guess I'll find out. Either way they should work with my alternate bridge because the string anchors are closer to the saddles.

When you receive the short scales you ordered, could you share measurements from the ball end to the end of top winding. I have no problem with trimming silk. But if I recall correctly, when I ordered the short scale Pyramids the winding itself (not just the silk) was a tiny bit short at the nut of my short scale Alembic (So the skinny "leader" part of the string sat in the notch of the nut). I'd really like to use the short scale set on my JS2 (harp bridge), because it has the lighter, .100 E string. But I don't want to risk $60 finding out they are too short for either bass.

 

[ric426]

Sure, I'd be glad to. I should have them in a couple days.

 

[bassman10096]

Thanks!

 

[ric426]

Got the Pyramid Golds today. Mounted and tuned up they measure 33 1/2" from the the ball end to the start of the silk windings and 34" from the ball end to the end of the outer flat windings. With my bridge they clear the nut with room to spare, but with a harp bridge you'd have to trim about 1/4" of the silk windings back to clear the nut.

They sound pretty good. As good or better than the other flatwounds I've tried. Definitely better than the LaBellas that were on it, but it's been a while since I had Chromes on the bass so a direct comparison is hard. The E and A are thumpier than the D and G, but I suspect that they'll need to break in for a while before things even out. They do seem to be pretty even sounding as I go up the neck. I hope the string to string balance evens out as well. I do like the tension and feel of them. Taking them out of the envelopes they were noticeably more flexible and at pitch are definitely lighter tension, but they don't feel floppy on the bass like the TI flats did to me.

We'll see how it goes, but I did like the sound I was getting with the D'Addario Half Rounds, though the over all sound was more generic in general. Some of that is due to my bridge and that's a work in progress too, so it all may change in the future.

 

[bassman10096]

Thanks. Sounds like they'll be a doable adaptation. The bird tailpiece on the Alembic is just about in a different county from the bridge and saddles, but just wanted to be sure. Thanks again. Pyramids do have a short wear-in period. I've always found the D and G kind of penetrating (in a relatively good way) so I've lowered pole pieces, treble side of pick up a bit to compensate.

 

[ric426]

Yeah, I completely changed the pole piece elevations to get the strings balanced. Once I got it right though, the balance is better than I've been able to get with any other flats. My only gripe at this point is the difference in sustain between the two low strings and the two high ones, but I'll give it some time because I like everything else about them. Except maybe the price, but getting them on sale helped and the price is better than some other strings.

 

[ric426]

Just being strung up under tension for a couple of days has pretty much taken care of the difference between the lower and upper string response. It sounds like a pretty well integrated set now. I think I'll keep 'em.

 

[wisconsindead]

ric426, did you get the long or short scale pyramids? I'm thinking of finally making an excursion outside of TIs and I've had my eye on Pyramids.

 

[ric426]

I got the short scale set and they fit fine with my bridge, but with a stock Guild harp bridge you'll probably have to trim a little bit of the silk back so it doesn't lay on the nut. Not a big deal. Mine seemed to stretch a bit once they were under tension, so I'd suggest mounting them and leaving the silk untrimmed for a couple days first so you don't trim more than you need to. FWIW, I've tried TI flats several times and they were too floppy for me, but the Pyramids are nice. Still lower tension than LaBella or D'Addario flats, but not as floppy as TI flats.

 

[wisconsindead]

I'm confused. The short scale are just long enough then? The long scale would be too long?

 

[ric426]

Yes, the short scale will work. At worst you might have to trim some of the silk so it doesn't lay on the nut, but I'd leave them strung up for a couple days before you do any trimming. Having the silk on the nut won't hurt anything. It might affect the sustain of the open strings until it's trimmed back. Just don't trim any more than you need to and it'll be fine.
I don't have any first hand experience using the long scale strings, but for what they cost I wouldn't want to risk messing any up from winding too much around a tuner.

 

[SFIV1967]

At worst you might have to trim some of the silk so it doesn't lay on the nut,...
...I don't have any first hand experience using the long scale strings, but for what they cost I wouldn't want to risk messing any up from winding too much around a tuner.

Help me to understand this. I am not a bass player and don't plan to be one but I am curious. What is the silk for and why can't you cut a bass string short like one does for normal guitar strings ??? Why would you care about too long strings ? From a guitar players point of view I would just cut them to length? No?
Ralf

 

[ric426]

Help me to understand this. I am not a bass player and don't plan to be one but I am curious. What is the silk for and why can't you cut a bass string short like one does for normal guitar strings ??? Why would you care about too long strings ? From a guitar players point of view I would just cut them to length? No?
Ralf

First I should say that these are my impressions and understanding of bass string construction. I may be wrong about some things and others may have different opinions and experiences or more to add to the discussion. I welcome other comments.
A lot of bass strings are constructed differently than guitar strings. Some (most?) flat wound strings have an outer winding of flat ribbon and the silk is there to keep that outer winding from coming loose and unwinding, which would render the string useless. That's why you don't want to remove any more of that silk than you have to and you would definitely not want to cut the string shorter than the silk for the same reason. Some long scale strings will tolerate having the main portion of the string wrapped around a tuner post, but some don't and the string will break if wound around a small tuning post. Some strings can't even be used strung through the body because the sharp bend at the bridge can cause the string to break. Round wound bass strings are frequently made in a way that doesn't require the silk winding and if the core wire is flexible enough, will tolerate a sharp bend or being wrapped around a tuning post. There are some flatwound strings that will also tolerate that, but given the cost of bass strings, it can be an expensive experiment. Flatwound bass strings generally cost $25 to as much as $100 while guitar strings are generally under $10. You can see why we aren't as casual about strings and fortunately don't generally change them as often as a guitar player would. If you think that's bad, upright bass strings are generally at least $100 and can range into several hundred dollars per set and some can be much less forgiving and short lived.
Hope this answers your questions without causing extra confusion.

 

[fronobulax]

Help me to understand this. I am not a bass player and don't plan to be one but I am curious. What is the silk for and why can't you cut a bass string short like one does for normal guitar strings ??? Why would you care about too long strings ? From a guitar players point of view I would just cut them to length? No?
Ralf

What ric426 said. Bass string construction may, or may not, be uniform across the length of the string. Cutting a string to shorten it may effect the integrity of the string. I have seen flatwounds that unraveled after being cut because they were too long.

 

[SFIV1967]

Ah! Thank you ric and frono! Now it all makes sense to me. Something learned. :encouragement:
Ralf

 

[fronobulax]

Ah! Thank you ric and frono! Now it all makes sense to me. Something learned. :encouragement:
Ralf

Given the wealth of knowledge you have shared, it is always nice to be able to return the favor. You are welcome.