Neck Reset Talk

[Scratch]

It's been a couple of years ago I guess Jazzy. All I remember was Guild in Nashville. I'm sure one of the other guys can fill you in. I do remember Hans asking Hoboken if they put the origional serial # on the new headstock? .......I can't remember the answer though. I don't know which is going the fastest, my back, my knees, my eyes or my memory. Hoboken drops by every now and then.....or you could send him a PM.

West

Long as ya don't have to take the blue pill for it, yer OK, Westie. :roll: :?

 

[West R Lee]

It's been a couple of years ago I guess Jazzy. All I remember was Guild in Nashville. I'm sure one of the other guys can fill you in. I do remember Hans asking Hoboken if they put the origional serial # on the new headstock? .......I can't remember the answer though. I don't know which is going the fastest, my back, my knees, my eyes or my memory. Hoboken drops by every now and then.....or you could send him a PM.

West

Long as ya don't have to take the blue pill for it, yer OK, Westie. :roll: :?

:lol: I do happen to take a blue pill Scratch, just not THAT blue pill. :wink:

West

 

[Scratch]

Has a way of resetting yer neck within 60 minutes.

 

[West R Lee]

Has a way of resetting yer neck within 60 minutes.

:lol: :lol: :? What do ya do for the 60 minutes Kenny? Play cards, backgammon, guitars.........whatever?......just kidding. :wink: Nevermind, I'm sure you have no idea.............. think I'll shut up now and check another thread. I meant.....what do THEY do?

West

 

[Scratch]

I mean, I've just heard other guys say, Jim. Yeh. That's what I mean. And that four hour thing.... well that's jus' a myth. I mean, that's what they say... Yeh. Thats what I mean... And I mean who's gonna go to a doc anywaY? Heck, I'm telling the neighborhood. Yeh... I mean that's what I would do... Yeh.... :lol: :? :shock: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[West R Lee]

I mean, I've just heard other guys say, Jim. Yeh. That's what I mean. And that four hour thing.... well that's jus' a myth. I mean, that's what they say... Yeh. Thats what I mean... And I mean who's gonna go to a doc anywaY? Heck, I'm telling the neighborhood. Yeh... I mean that's what I would do... Yeh.... :lol: :? :shock: :roll: :roll: :roll:

:lol:

West

 

[taabru45]

If it gets stuck in your throat, you get a stiff neck. :lol: Steffan

 

[kitniyatran]

Ads say see a Dr. if it lasts more than 4 hours; I never met a man who'd be bothered by that, it'd take a lot more than 4 hours to worry any man I've known. Their wives, however....

 

[kitniyatran]

Personally, I always thought I'd be better off with something to have the opposite effect. :roll:

 

[kitniyatran]

What was this thread about? Oh yeah, neck resets. When I had a Martin, Martin covered it; all I had to do was drop off & pick up. I don't know about Guild.

 

[chazmo]

Hi Jazz, this is what I'm going to have done to my F112, for a whole lot less than a traditional reset. For a couple of reasons, the guy who did a reset didn't replace the shaved bridge, and who knows what he used to replace the neck......like epoxy???
So this is an alternative technique that gets the same results, I think...check out the repair to the yahama 12 string at the bottom of the page.....also a huge amount of helpful info on this site. Steffan
http://mrglyn.blogspot.com/search?q=neck+angle

Wow. I just glanced over the section with the Yamaha 12-stringer. I'd never seen that before.

The only questions I have:

1) Separating the binding from the shoulders seems like a problem to me, because all the lacquered binding will have to be put back in and touched up *perfectly* so that the lacquer coat seems even.
2) Money-wise, with all the touch up and potential for things to go awry here, does this method actually save you any money/headaches?

I'm just thinking out loud at this point. I'm after seamless, undetectable repairs, so I'm wondering if this method can be done without leaving any traces.

Steffan,

Thanks for the link on this one. I'd never seen that method of a neck reset. I'm still awfully confused about how separating the back makes the neck joint pliable. I don't get it, but I'll have to look into it.

 

[gilded]

Steffan, are you sure they reset the neck on your F112, or just got rid of most of the bridge? I mean, can you look at the join of neck and body and say to yourself, 'yeah that neck's been off!!' Would you mind sending me some pics of the neck join?

Gents, I'd sure think long and hard about the 'Kiwi Method' of neck resets. Most repair guys think of that as, 'slippin the neck-block'. For some luthiers, it's an easier way of doing things, but you wind up twisting the guitar body; top, back and sides, in a profound way.

Also, it occurs to me that your bridge is so low now. If somebody replaced your bridge with one that's as high as it ought to be, then slipped the neck up to where it was 'supposed to be', man, you'd have one twisted guitar.

That's scary stuff to me, fellas.

gilded

 

[kostask]

Slipping the neck block is normally used only on classical guitars, with spanish heels. They have a one piece neck/neck block, and without a neck joint, you don't have much of a choice. It is one way, but not the only way, to reset the neck on a guitar with no neck joint to speak of. Your F112, if the joint is glued with epoxy, would be pretty much the same thing. Another alternative is:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier ... eset1.html

In my mind, the proper way to do a neck reset on your F112 is to get the epoxy out of the neck joint by drilling two holes at the 15th fret, and then putting either acetone down the holes or some of the other epoxy dissolving fluids that are out there. Then when the epoxy has been suitably weakened, take the neck off, and scrape out whatever epoxy remains. Then recut the neck joint as required to set the neck up at the proper angle, and reglue with either hide or modern (Titebond) glue as desired.

Also, for a illustration of the proper way a neck reset is to be performed, see:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier ... set01.html

Note the lack of fretboard planing, and the note that refretting will be done, but as part of a setup, not as part of the neck reset.

Kostas

 

[jazzmang]

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier ... set01.html

Yes, he doesn't plane the fretboard, but he does say this:

... You may notice that there's a bit more than the "usual" amount of drop-off over the body. Generally, if the drop-off isn't too severe, I prefer it that way, rather than seeing the uneven look of a shim under the fingerboard end.

So basically he says that the drop-off isn't that severe in this particular case. I deduce that if it was, his preference would be to go the route of putting an unsightly shim under the fingerboard end, versus a re-plane. For me, I abhor the 'shimmed' look, so planing would be the way to go.

And obviously, a refret would be needed after the planing.

 

[chazmo]

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier ... set01.html

Yes, he doesn't plane the fretboard, but he does say this:

... You may notice that there's a bit more than the "usual" amount of drop-off over the body. Generally, if the drop-off isn't too severe, I prefer it that way, rather than seeing the uneven look of a shim under the fingerboard end.

So basically he says that the drop-off isn't that severe in this particular case. If it was, he would prefer to go the route of putting an unsightly shim under the fingerboard end, versus a re-plane. For me, I abhor the 'shimmed' look, so planing would be the way to go.

And obviously, a refret would be needed after the planing.

Jazz, I had the neck reset on my old Taylor recently. My luthier, who has experience with Taylor necks, was able to do this by unbolting the neck block and sanding the heel. In my case it didn't require removing the fretboard (which is glued on the older Taylors). The fretboard is not a straight line when you sight down it, but the warpage is slight and my luthier compensated it with level frets. Yes, the strings do get a little higher from frets 14 onward, but the guitar is very playable and really came back to life after this.

I think you're right and a "perfect" reset must involve straightening the fingerboard, but I guess I'm saying that small deflections are easily compensated with fret leveling and it's essentially unnoticeable from a playability point of view.

Just sharin' my experience.

 

[kostask]

The point of all this was to explain why a fingerboard planing is NOT normally needed. We may have different opinions on the aesthetics of shims, but as I have already said more than once, it is not a guarantee that a neck reset will result in a fretboard hump, or the need for a fretboard plane. It really does depend on the individual guitar. I am also willing to bet that if the neck reset is covered by the Guild warranty, the fingerboard planing, and refretting will NOT be be covered, as is true of Martin. Martin, and I believe all guitar manufacturers, consider frets to be a "wear" item, and are expected to need replacement, similar to strings, and as such are not a material quality or workmanship issue. Therefore, no warranty coverage.

Kostas

 

[jazzmang]

The point of all this was to explain why a fingerboard planing is NOT normally needed. We may have different opinions on the aesthetics of shims, but as I have already said more than once, it is not a guarantee that a neck reset will result in a fretboard hump, or the need for a fretboard plane. It really does depend on the individual guitar. I am also willing to bet that if the neck reset is covered by the Guild warranty, the fingerboard planing, and refretting will NOT be be covered, as is true of Martin. Martin, and I believe all guitar manufacturers, consider frets to be a "wear" item, and are expected to need replacement, similar to strings, and as such are not a material quality or workmanship issue. Therefore, no warranty coverage.

Kostas

Gotcha. I was commenting on the DV-72 that I had a luthier do a neck reset on. It ended up having a big hump on the fretboard extension and I wasn't happy with it, so I sent it to Guild afterwards.

 

[kostask]

Jazzmang:

I saw the pictures, and in your case, I don't really think that you had much of an option. The hump was so pronounced that it was probably the only thing to do. Fingerboard planing can also help with minor neck twists; truly minor neck twists can be addressed by fretwork only; anything that can't be addressed by fretwork, or a combination of fretwork and fingerboard planing usually means serious neck work (peel the fingerboard off, plane the actual neck straight, reglue the fingerboard on, if possible; or a new neck). Please keep in mind that the fingerboard, as well as holding the frets in position, is also a structural member, and holds all the counter tension from the truss rod. Planing the fingerboard reduces this strength, and should be avoided, unless you end up with a case like Jazzmang's.

The Taylor NT necks actually have a sort of neck extension below the fingerboard extension, which ends up pretty well making the fretboard straight all the way to the end of the fingerboard. The NT's neck design is what permits this, which seems to have been derived from the cantilevered archtop neck designs.

Kostas

 

[taabru45]

Steffan, are you sure they reset the neck on your F112, or just got rid of most of the bridge? I mean, can you look at the join of neck and body and say to yourself, 'yeah that neck's been off!!' Would you mind sending me some pics of the neck join?

Gents, I'd sure think long and hard about the 'Kiwi Method' of neck resets. Most repair guys think of that as, 'slippin the neck-block'. For some luthiers, it's an easier way of doing things, but you wind up twisting the guitar body; top, back and sides, in a profound way.

Also, it occurs to me that your bridge is so low now. If somebody replaced your bridge with one that's as high as it ought to be, then slipped the neck up to where it was 'supposed to be', man, you'd have one twisted guitar.

That's scary stuff to me, fellas.

gilded

Hi Guilded, The neck has been off, the label in the inside is in the wrong place, and here are a couple of pics where I touched up the wood along the seams of he neck and binding, one before I think and the rest after. Used india ink and bit of black paint rubbed into the seam.. much better than before. It should have had a new bridge and saddle done too.....goofball thought he was a luthier I guess. Steffan

 

[marcellis]

Given the changes in ownership, I doubt if any is covered on Westerly Guilds.

I could be wrong.