Neck Reset Talk

[jazzmang]

Hey guys.

All this talk of neck resets has got me thinking. Will Guild's lifetime warranty cover a neck reset? I'm the original owner of a couple of these guitars and one in particular may need a neck reset pretty soon.

Think it'd be covered? If so, do you think they'd do it the right way with a full fretboard replaning, refret, and new nut and saddle?

I appreciate the input!

 

[kostask]

I don't know if the Guild warranty will cover the neck reset, so I cannot speak to that.

I will say that neck resets do not cover fretboard planing, refrets, and replacement nuts and saddles, at least up here. The neck reset has to do with correcting the neck angle by working on the dovetail. Fretboard planing is a separate piece of work, and would be charged separately. In many cases, it isn't needed. Refrets are required due to frets wearing out, and wear is not normally under warranty, nor is it considered part of a neck reset, again up here. Refrets can be required at anytime, whether a neck reset is required or not, and a neck reset does not necessarily require a refret, and depending on circumstances, may not even require a fret dress.

Nuts and saddles are each individually priced, and again, not part of a neck reset. Depending on the luthier doing the work, nuts and saddles may, or may not, be part of a setup. By this I mean a saddle height adjustment, or correcting nut slots. New saddles and nuts are always priced separately.

Neck resets are just that, they correct the angle of the neck, and that is all they normally encompass, at least around here. Doing it the right way means getting a solid neck joint, with the neck at the correct angle. Anything else is extra cost.

Kostas

 

[jazzmang]

Correct me if I'm wrong (which is more often than not), but a significant change in neck angle ends up creating a hump in the fretboard.

Check out my terrible illustration:

If the correction angle is significant enough, you would have to re-plane the fretboard and refret it to compensate for the hump shown in the pic.

Wouldn't a neck reset done without doing all of this be useless? It'd be a humpy fretboard with terrible action.

 

[taabru45]

Hi Jazz, this is what I'm going to have done to my F112, for a whole lot less than a traditional reset. For a couple of reasons, the guy who did a reset didn't replace the shaved bridge, and who knows what he used to replace the neck......like epoxy???
So this is an alternative technique that gets the same results, I think...check out the repair to the yahama 12 string at the bottom of the page.....also a huge amount of helpful info on this site. Steffan
http://mrglyn.blogspot.com/search?q=neck+angle

 

[Scratch]

I recently went through the reset process and you are correct. The complete operation included the additional tasks of removing the frets, replaning the fretboard and subsequent refretting. I believe Kostask was stating the warranty may/may not include the reset and based on the manafacturer's interpretation, the additional tasks may or may not be considered a part of the process. I'd sure like to know how Fender responds...

 

[plaidseason]

I've had pretty good luck with Fender/Guild warranty service. I think your best bet is to go to your nearest authorized "service center." I think.

-Chris

 

[jazzmang]

Hi Jazz, this is what I'm going to have done to my F112, for a whole lot less than a traditional reset. For a couple of reasons, the guy who did a reset didn't replace the shaved bridge, and who knows what he used to replace the neck......like epoxy???
So this is an alternative technique that gets the same results, I think...check out the repair to the yahama 12 string at the bottom of the page.....also a huge amount of helpful info on this site. Steffan
http://mrglyn.blogspot.com/search?q=neck+angle

Wow. I just glanced over the section with the Yamaha 12-stringer. I'd never seen that before.

The only questions I have:

1) Separating the binding from the shoulders seems like a problem to me, because all the lacquered binding will have to be put back in and touched up *perfectly* so that the lacquer coat seems even.
2) Money-wise, with all the touch up and potential for things to go awry here, does this method actually save you any money/headaches?

I'm just thinking out loud at this point. I'm after seamless, undetectable repairs, so I'm wondering if this method can be done without leaving any traces.

 

[taabru45]

I think they would use heat lamps on the binding, and yes you can add dyes to the lacquer, why don't you write Mr Glyn...
For my F112 I was told less than $450, including a new bridgeplate...etc....sounds almost affordable, but when my finances improve.......plus check out my 'opinion' on the sale of your Jumbo :wink: Steffan

 

[jazzmang]

I think they would use heat lamps on the binding, and yes you can add dyes to the lacquer, why don't you write Mr Glyn...

I may just have to do that. I'll ask him what he feels is the best solution, dollar for dollar, as far as keeping the repair undetectable.

plus check out my 'opinion' on the sale of your Jumbo :wink: Steffan

Haha yeah I saw that. I agree with your assessment. I bought that guitar initially, knowing the action/saddle were both low. I put more money into it to get it where I wanted it (fret dress/recrown, bridge reset, setup), but I ended up finding a new F-50R that Bing hooked me up with... and man oh man did it sound sweet. All of a sudden, I didn't need the JF-55 anymore and I'd already dumped a lot of money into it. But bygones... I hope that someone gets it and is happy with it.

 

[taabru45]

Ok Jazz, imagine the flack I'd get about the bridge, and action on this...Still, Its a beautiful 74 F112, and sings. Its also easy to play, and I live with it...happily. :lol: Steffan

 

[onewilyfool]

I had a 1983 Martin M-38, neck reset was covered by warranty, but I had to pay for all other items, my "free" warranty work cost me $350 out of my own pocket. By the way, I have seen three Guilds, oldest one being 1988, newest one being 2001, and ALL of them needed neck resets.....in our neck of the woods, about $400-500 dollars.

 

[jazzmang]

Ok Jazz, imagine the flack I'd get about the bridge, and action on this...Still, Its a beautiful 74 F112, and sings. Its also easy to play, and I live with it...happily. :lol: Steffan

Ouch. Yeah that does look a bit rough. Looks like the bridge has been shaved as well, no?

Regardless, if you love the sound, then she's fine just the way she is... although the optimist in me always thinks "if it sounds this good now, I wonder what it'll sound like after I do...[insert repair/improvement here]"

 

[taabru45]

Shaved, closer than Wests' razor...right to the n---. No where to go. So one day new bridge, plate, saddle and nut reversing string positions. (octave strings). I already replaced the tuners with Ping, which fitted perfectly and work smoothly, so I've already got 30 bucks into it. :lol: .....along with the $630 I paid for the 94 D4, I think it was. Got caught with about 150 bucks exchange rate, so the good part of the deal evaporated. Ah well......had a chance to trade it straight across for this 74 F112, and thought why not, and so it goes.......If I spend another 4 bills on it some day...well.....she'll be pretty sweet, and pretty rare, not unlike some Jumbos. It also has an I-beam pick up in it... Steffan

 

[cjd-player]

Correct me if I'm wrong (which is more often than not), but a significant change in neck angle ends up creating a hump in the fretboard.

Check out my terrible illustration:

If the correction angle is significant enough, you would have to re-plane the fretboard and refret it to compensate for the hump shown in the pic.

Wouldn't a neck reset done without doing all of this be useless? It'd be a humpy fretboard with terrible action.

If all of that is done, you will likely have to reset the saddle as well. Moving the neck closer to the body to adjust the angle will make the scale length shorter. You can't do a neck reset without moving the neck closer to the body 'cause you're removing wood from the heel somewhere in the process. So then the saddle will need to be moved back (fill the slot and route a new one) to maintain proper intonation.

 

[kostask]

I only know what Martin's warranty will cover, as I have a luthier buddy who is the local Martin Warranty Center. They will cover the work to the dovetail, only. No fretwork, no planing of the fingerboard, no nut and saddle work.

If the neck reset is done properly, the scale length doesn't change. THe dovetail is only cut or reshaped near the neck heel and tapered towards the fretboard. In essence, the point at which the neck joins the body (12th or 14th fret) is the pivot point. Being the pivot point, it does not move, the dovetail is cut/reshaped to allow the neck angle to change without moving the 12th or 14th fret position relative to the body. If you look at a guitar before and after a good neck reset, the body/neck join will always be exactly as it was before. No need to move the bridge, but almost guaranteed to require a new saddle due to the new string height/angle.

Shaving bridges only buys you some time, a neck reset will still be required.

Regarding the "hump" it may or may not occur, and it may or may not be important. The "hump" really depends on how much the neck is moved in terms of angle, and we are NOT talking about 5-10 degree movements here. Usually it is less than 5 degrees, and the few degrees of movement may raise the tail end of the fingerboard, but the fingerboard may also either be glued down, or a wedge may be placed between the bottom of the fingerboard and the top of the soundboard. Whether this is acceptable to the player is between him and his luthier, but a wedge can actually lead to a better action in the last 5 frets than trying to glue down the fingerboard end, and replaning the fingerboard. Other thing to keep in mind is that the neck is being restored to it original, or very close to original angle, and the fretboard end was correct when the guitar was made. Resetting the neck tries to restore the propler angle, and this also applies to the fingerboard end. If it is an exceptionally stiff fingerboard, the above mentioned wedge may be used, or in a less stiff fingerboard, the fingerboard can be glued down.

Most fretboard humps are not due to neck resets; they are a by product of a guitar drying out. I am willing to bet that most of the folks here have seen fretboard humps on guitars that have NOT had neck resets. Ever wonder why that is?

Kostas

 

[West R Lee]

I do know that our member "Hoboken" developed a neck twist in his DV72. Hobo is the origional owner and all work (neck replacement) was done under warrenty by the Guild Custom Shop.....free of charge.

West

 

[jazzmang]

I do know that our member "Hoboken" developed a neck twist in his DV72. Hobo is the origional owner and all work (neck replacement) was done under warrenty by the Guild Custom Shop.....free of charge.

West

Wow. Was this recently with Guild Nashville Repair or when the Guild Custom Shop actually existed?

Most fretboard humps are not due to neck resets; they are a by product of a guitar drying out. I am willing to bet that most of the folks here have seen fretboard humps on guitars that have NOT had neck resets. Ever wonder why that is?

Kostas

I totally agree, but one of my DV-72s had a significant neck angle adjustment and I had a definite hump. My concern is that getting a reset this severe on a warranted guitar would have to have a replaning/refret done. Theres no other way to avoid the hump on a serious reset like this. A shim under the fretboard is unsightly and is marring the cosmetic appearance of the guitar, which should definitely be a no-no in all warranty repair situations.

Just my 2 cents.

Actually I have pics of the significantly-reset neck here:

The hump was significant. The pictures don't quite show the true 'humpiness'

 

[Spectrum13]

Jazz,

My 75 F50R went throught the factory warrenty thing and is now brokebackin.

They factory charged $280 for a refret and $120 for neck binding and $80 for the body binding. All the binding looks new and they did not move the bridge. I was going to ask you to send the before photo's cause I thought they put a new neck on it as it looks that good it looks brand new plus they did not charge for the nut and saddle/ setup. The volume is constant over all six strings and my neighbor told me it sounds like a 12 string with all the overtones comin out of that box.

You can call Mark at the M & L in Marietta, the other Guild authorized repair guy in Atlanta and confirm my story.

 

[jazzmang]

Jazz,

My 75 F50R went throught the factory warrenty thing and is now brokebackin.

They factory charged $280 for a refret and $120 for neck binding and $80 for the body binding. All the binding looks new and they did not move the bridge. I was going to ask you to send the before photo's cause I thought they put a new neck on it as it looks that good it looks brand new plus they did not charge for the nut and saddle/ setup. The volume is constant over all six strings and my neighbor told me it sounds like a 12 string with all the overtones comin out of that box.

You can call Mark at the M & L in Marietta, the other Guild authorized repair guy in Atlanta and confirm my story.

Thats not bad at all, especially the price for all the binding work.

Was their finish work around the neck and binding visible at all? I'm looking for an invisible repair job.

Thanks for the info again. I'd love to see some pics of the F-50R now, just so i can get an idea of what their work looks like.

 

[West R Lee]

It's been a couple of years ago I guess Jazzy. All I remember was Guild in Nashville. I'm sure one of the other guys can fill you in. I do remember Hans asking Hoboken if they put the origional serial # on the new headstock? .......I can't remember the answer though. I don't know which is going the fastest, my back, my knees, my eyes or my memory. Hoboken drops by every now and then.....or you could send him a PM.

West