Martin throws down the gauntlet

[taabru45]

I'm kinda parial to mine........ its paid for (1980-sweet eh?):lol: :lol: Steffan

 

[Jeff]

[quote="Chazmo.....(the Guild is ~70% the price of the Martin)...[/quote]

Martin has a tough row to hoe. :wink:

 

[count savage]

Well, the price difference is fairly stark, unless money is no object. The new Martin 2009 MSRP is $5199 vs. the Guild's $3399. Actually, there's a Martin mahogany 12-string on their site that interests me more. Can't remember the model number. Guild, by the same token, should consider mahogany, maybe. Honestly, Guild needs to get more aggressive. And with Fender marketing money behind them, they could. The word of mouth and brand allegiance is very strong.

 

[Jeff_L]

Here's a link to the specs -

http://www.mguitar.com/guitars/choosing ... %20Special

and page 19 of the Sounding Board has a little bit about it.

http://www.mguitar.com/news/PDF/Vol_26.pdf

Sorry but I couldn't find any dimensions.

Jeff

 

[chazmo]

Well, the price difference is fairly stark, unless money is no object. The new Martin 2009 MSRP is $5199 vs. the Guild's $3399. Actually, there's a Martin mahogany 12-string on their site that interests me more. Can't remember the model number. Guild, by the same token, should consider mahogany, maybe. Honestly, Guild needs to get more aggressive. And with Fender marketing money behind them, they could. The word of mouth and brand allegiance is very strong.

Count,

2009 MSRP for the F512 with DTAR is $300 more than the price you quoted. Just keepin' us honest, and trying to compare apples to apples. It's $5200 vs. $3700. I don't know if Martin is planning a version without electronics.

 

[count savage]

You're right! I missed that the Martin came with the D-Tar. The Guild is $3700 with electronics, so I'm glad I bought when I did. A $1500 difference. Which is very significant in my house. Could buy an extra D-50 with that money, almost. Well, it will be interesting to compare them side by side. As I said, though, the mahogany Martin is really what interests me. I recently sold a Martin and haven't looked back.

 

[Scratch]

Definitely agree its a shot at the 512. Taylor 12ers have never had low end 12 performance; my experience with those Taylor 12s I've owned (then sold) are quite weak in that respect. Martins; somewhat known for a bassy response, looking to capitalize, perhaps... As previously mentioned, they'll sell a bunch to those atuned to the Martin name/mystique. Haven't heard the new Marty, but I'd be willing to put a 512 against it any day...

 

[West R Lee]

Kenny,

Got your VCR set for tomorrow? :wink:

West

 

[chazmo]

There's NO question that Martin is going after the F 512 with this guitar, with an MSRP that's almost double Guild's! On one level, I find this a semi pathetic gesture by a great guitar company, Martin. On another level, I see it as great flattery, albeit an attempt to pull some market share. With Fender's marketing clout they could really go after Martin if they wanted to, and maybe they should. It will be interesting to see how the Martin sounds with essentially the same body shape. It won't still won't sound like the Guild F 512, unless inside it's an exact copy, which it won't be. And guitar players in the know, which is to say anyone who would buy either guitar, or would have had several Martins or Guild, Taylors, Larrivees, etc., will also already know the inherent differences of the two companies.

The MSRP for this guitar, which comes with a DTAR system by the way (yet another nod to the F512) is $5200. The Guild F512 for 2009 is $3700. We're not talking double here. I expect street prices to be at a similar ratio (the Guild is ~70% the price of the Martin)...

Hi guys,

I'm getting a little GASsy for this new Martin. The few who've gotten 'em or played 'em over at the UMGF are raving. A couple who've actually played Guild F-512s say they favor the Martin. OK, it's a biased crowd. Anyway, so be it. I thought I should tell you guys that since we were having a price discussion, I was quoted $3120 (40% off MSRP) on a new one. I have no idea what MAP is supposed to be on these, but that price seems about what I expected, and I know the store owner pretty well. Anyone have a street price on a new F-512 with DTAR? I wonder if my guess that the Guild slotting in at 70% of Martin street price would hold -- i.e., is a new F-512 with DTAR ~$2240??

 

[cuthbert]

People of NH know how to make 12 strings guitars, I know that this is a Guild board, but I've to point out that the only other successfull 12 strings in the 70s and the 80s were the Ovations, in particular the Peacemaker (Brian May used it a lot until the end of the 90s) and the Glem Cambell.

Unfortunately Ovation discontinued the last high end 12 strings, the Custom Legend that I humbly own, in 2006, so at the moment they don't have anything to compete with this new Martin clone, I'd be happy to see a 612 or a 512 with cutaway, I think that model was produced in the past, I've a pic in one of my books.

 

[chazmo]

I hadn't considered that point, cuthbert, but you're quite right. 12-strings are in Ovation's (Kaman's) blood.

Does anyone have any word on the New Hartford production of 12-strings? Is Fender just going to let Martin walk away unchallenged with this crown?

 

[kyguild]

Just got the August issue of Acoustic Guitar, with reviews of 12-strings. They reviewed the J12-40E in the $3K and up catagory, mentioning Lowden, Santa Cruz, R. Taylor and Veillette as competitors. They mentioned the 512 as competition for the Breedlove 12 they tested.

At least they did test the GAD-JF3012 in the $1K - $1.5K catagory....seems like they gave it a pretty good review.

I don't see how anyone can consider the new Martin as anything but direct competition for the F512, though....

 

[chazmo]

Thought I'd let you know that, to no one's great surprise, Martin is expanding the "Grand J" line.

A new Grand J-35 has been added to the line. This one is very much an F-50R!

Anyway, I'm glad Martin is successful with their new line of Grand Js, but I keep wondering if the Guild F-body jumbos will get a resurgence. Also, if that even happened, is New Hartford up for it? I don't know.

Here's a little info and a couple of pictures of the new 6 string. http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... opic/85240

 

[cuthbert]

Thought I'd let you know that, to no one's great surprise, Martin is expanding the "Grand J" line.

A new Grand J-35 has been added to the line. This one is very much an F-50R!

Anyway, I'm glad Martin is successful with their new line of Grand Js, but I keep wondering if the Guild F-body jumbos will get a resurgence. Also, if that even happened, is New Hartford up for it? I don't know.

Here's a little info and a couple of pictures of the new 6 string. http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... opic/85240

If Fender doesn't do anything about that, I foresee that all the Guild fans will move towards Martin...everything can be said about them but not that they don't know how marketing works.

 

[Brad Little]

I agree that the D-12-20 is the prototypical Martin 12.

I had a D-12-20 for a while, it paled in comparison with my F-212. I'd probably still have it, though, except it was stolen from my son's room when he lived in a rooming house.

Brad

 

[chazmo]

Thought I'd let you know that, to no one's great surprise, Martin is expanding the "Grand J" line.

A new Grand J-35 has been added to the line. This one is very much an F-50R!

Anyway, I'm glad Martin is successful with their new line of Grand Js, but I keep wondering if the Guild F-body jumbos will get a resurgence. Also, if that even happened, is New Hartford up for it? I don't know.

Here's a little info and a couple of pictures of the new 6 string. http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... opic/85240

If Fender doesn't do anything about that, I foresee that all the Guild fans will move towards Martin...everything can be said about them but not that they don't know how marketing works.

Well, I haven't played these yet, but if they're the equal of the F-body jumbos then it's possible, cuthbert.

Two things stand in the way. First, these guitars are significantly more expensive than Guilds, and second Martin is not an "underdog" in the industry (which is one of the reasons, I think, that many of us love our Guilds). But, I agree with your premise.