Martin throws down the gauntlet

[chazmo]

You guys see this fecker? New body style from Martin (grand jumbo) shown at NAMM. Look familiar? Also, breaking with Martin tradition, look closely at the bridge pins. F512, anyone?

OK, Kaman folks... Are you listening??? F612, bring it on!!!

The price on this new Marty, by the way, is really not competitive with the F512. But, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the Martin 12 lovers are going to jump all over this.

 

[Walter Broes]

hmmm...I was ready to post "hasn't Martin done 12's forever?" until I saw the pic - it's fairly obvious what that's supposed to compete with!

 

[chazmo]

Got that right, Walter.

Beauty, ain't she? Street price will probably be 1.5x to 2x on an F512, but given that she's a Martin, who knows...

The good news here is that, as a jumbo lover, this should spark some renewed interest in Guild jumbos. Hence my comment to the New Hartford folks to up the ante.

 

[6L6]

Looks great, but not as cool as a F-512.

I've always felt that Martin's D-12-20 was the best sounding 12 they ever made and I don't expect this new one to change that.

Competition is a good thing. It will be interesting to watch how this new one does.

6

'06 F-412

 

[chazmo]

I agree that the D-12-20 is the prototypical Martin 12. But, this is clearly a new breed, and it's obviously modeled after Guild's F series. A couple of NAMM reports really liked this guitar.


I smell an A/B comparison for someone who can get their hands on one.

 

[Walter Broes]

Doesn't really do it for me - If I were inclined to get an acoustic 12, I'd get a Guild! (actually, I like the F212's most...)

 

[FNG]

Nice guitar, but at MSRP of 5199, think the F512 might be a better deal.

 

[JerryR]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery :wink:

 

[Appalachian Blues]

I'm not sure what issue of Acoustic Guitar it was, but I was looking thru it at the guitar shop, and they had an article about guitars that have made an impact on the trade. I know Gibson had their B model but as far as 12 strings, Guild was the first to put out 12 strings that musicians wanted to make music with. Of course, I once owned a lefty Taylor 855 and liked it alot. Got a heckuva deal at Wildwood Music in Coshocton, Ohio or I would have never bought it. But that was the 12 string AG magazine pointed out as making an impact, eluding to Neil Young's 855 featured on "Rust Never Sleeps"....one album. I'm like, give me a break. How many well known musicians made great sound with the Guild 12-string before Bob Taylor came along. John Denver, Tim Buckley, James Taylor, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, America, LEO KOTTKE, etc etc etc.
I'm sure AG will sing Martin's praises for the new 12 string and it most likely will have a good tone, but it ain't a Guild Jumbo. God willin', I want a lefty 212XL
By the way, I have the issue of AG that featured Guild guitars. I think it was last year when it came out. They did a nice job but I think Hans book supplied most of the info they used. Does he get a royality for that?

 

[chazmo]

AB, yeah that was widely debated. I have no problem giving some props to Taylor for finding out how to be successful while others were drowning in the '80s and early '90s... That said, their jumbo 12 is hardly as influential as many other choices, Guild included.

 

[marcellis]

Please forgive a stupid question, but does Guild even make 12-strings anymore? I've read that N.H. is making D-55's, 50's, and 40's. But I don't recall any reference to 12's.

 

[sitka_spruce]

Another point worth mentioning is the departure of the slightly flattened curvature of the bouts Martin is known for, in favour of more of a Guild-esque rounded thing - yet not as perfectly circular as Gibson is known for. This makes it even more of a Guild knock-off.

 

[chazmo]

I can't find the dimensions on mguitar.com... Are they posted anywhere? I could compare 'em against the F512.

 

[killdeer43]

Imagine that....Martin trying to look like Guild. First you have the best, and then you have the rest. The world seems to be filled with wannabes.

G'day Guildmates,
Joe

 

[Scratch]

Please forgive a stupid question, but does Guild even make 12-strings anymore? I've read that N.H. is making D-55's, 50's, and 40's. But I don't recall any reference to 12's.

Marc,
The F412 and 512 are on the NH pricelist that CJ posted. I'm sure they are not yet in production, but should be soon...

 

[sitka_spruce]

I can't find the dimensions on mguitar.com... Are they posted anywhere? I could compare 'em against the F512.

Can't even find any SJ model over at the Martin homepage... :? Chaz, where did you get the pic? You haven't been having some fun with Photoshop, now, have you?

 

[JimB1]

Well, it'd be nice if Guild would actually work on their dealer network so we can compare them back to back but I have yet to see a new guild in any store near me. I can guarantee Martin will sell a fifty of these for every guild sold just because people won't get to compare them to anything else but Taylor and Yamaha.

This looks more like a shot at Taylor's GA series then at Guild to me... though you are right about the tuning machines looking like Guild's the body looks closer to Taylor's GA then Guild's F512. The upper bout particularly in the curve of the shoulder and in the narrow waist looks more like the Taylor and the neck with plain dots is very similar to the Taylor.

I'd be happy to take all three for a 6 month trial just to let you know how close they all are, for the good of the board of course

-Jim

 

[count savage]

There's NO question that Martin is going after the F 512 with this guitar, with an MSRP that's almost double Guild's! On one level, I find this a semi pathetic gesture by a great guitar company, Martin. On another level, I see it as great flattery, albeit an attempt to pull some market share. With Fender's marketing clout they could really go after Martin if they wanted to, and maybe they should. It will be interesting to see how the Martin sounds with essentially the same body shape. It won't still won't sound like the Guild F 512, unless inside it's an exact copy, which it won't be. And guitar players in the know, which is to say anyone who would buy either guitar, or would have had several Martins or Guild, Taylors, Larrivees, etc., will also already know the inherent differences of the two companies.

 

[chazmo]

I can't find the dimensions on mguitar.com... Are they posted anywhere? I could compare 'em against the F512.

Can't even find any SJ model over at the Martin homepage... :? Chaz, where did you get the pic? You haven't been having some fun with Photoshop, now, have you?

Jonas, sorry no, I wasn't kidding with this one. It's real. It was introduced at NAMM this past week where it was shown at the Martin booth and played by a number of folks (all with good reports).

The information is on Martin's web site, but doesn't include body dimensions.

If you're interested, it's called the "Grand J12-40E Special" (yes, it's a mouthful)... http://www.mguitar.com/guitars/choosing ... %20Special

 

[chazmo]

There's NO question that Martin is going after the F 512 with this guitar, with an MSRP that's almost double Guild's! On one level, I find this a semi pathetic gesture by a great guitar company, Martin. On another level, I see it as great flattery, albeit an attempt to pull some market share. With Fender's marketing clout they could really go after Martin if they wanted to, and maybe they should. It will be interesting to see how the Martin sounds with essentially the same body shape. It won't still won't sound like the Guild F 512, unless inside it's an exact copy, which it won't be. And guitar players in the know, which is to say anyone who would buy either guitar, or would have had several Martins or Guild, Taylors, Larrivees, etc., will also already know the inherent differences of the two companies.

The MSRP for this guitar, which comes with a DTAR system by the way (yet another nod to the F512) is $5200. The Guild F512 for 2009 is $3700. We're not talking double here. I expect street prices to be at a similar ratio (the Guild is ~70% the price of the Martin)...