Lessons, Practice, & basic scales.

[Graham]

Jeff can you give any more update on the Jamman? I'm looking for something to set up in my little room to help me record so that I can play back and listen to myself. Is the Jamman too much for this task or is it just right?

Anyone else have suggestions for this type of thing, while I hijack a thread yet again.

Graham

 

[Jeff]

Graham,

The Jamman is probably a poor recording system. There is no EQ & very little in the way of resident rhythm tracks, but it's plenty good enough to let you know what you are doing. It records good enough I'm gonna post some of my creations up as soon as I figure out how.

I was seriously gonna trade trade it in on a better recording system till I spent 20 minutes with Smitty at the shop learning how it works. I decided the Jamman was a better learning tool & it didn't make much sense to spend the $$ on a quality recording system to record poor picking. The Jamman does quite a bit but not as overwhelming as a complex recording system. Smitty gave me enough in 20 minutes to dive in a give it a go.

I already had an OK mike & decent amps, which is whole nuther ball of wax. I still have to have to figure out something to tame down the feedback there. You put a humming squealing signal into the Jamman, it comes out just like you put it in. DC 5 E with Fishman much appreciated here.

The jamman is cool because you only need to put one verse in or the verse & the chorus or just the chorus. It loops the track over & over again. Then you can mess around with whatever you're trying to do, lead, harmony, whatever, slow it down, speed it up, when you get something cooking hit the footswitch & it overdubs, if it isn't right, & it usually isn't, hold the footswitch down for 2 seconds & it erases the overdub. Meanwhile the basic track is looping over & over, just wait till the part you're working on comes around & go again. I have no friends with the patience to play the same rhythym pattern over and over for an hour while I figure out a simple 6 note lead from D7 to G. The Jamman will do it for a week & not complain.

I put together a track with 5 or 6 overdubs with different guitars yesterday. All of the stuff I put in was very simple, has to be if I did it, but I'm learning where to lace in a pretty arpeggio or a pretty melody line & unless you were there when I did it you would think I was a much better player than I really am.

Actually, after 4 or 5 days with the Jamman I am a better player, just from a timing perspective. Some of my habits sounded like Guano & I didn't realize how bad it was. If the tune calls for an extra measure after the chorus, ya gotta stick around & do it before you start on the next verse. Recording yourself is ruthless.

 

[john_kidder]

Sounds very helpful Jeff. It is really a looping device rather than a recorder?

 

[Bing k]

Here's a question anyone can answer. . .

I can play all the chords, the barre chords, etc., like nothing; easy to do. I strum the guitar, can do the boom-chukka stuff, when I go slow enough I can do basic kinds of bass runs.

Can I consider myself a guitar player?

Can't play lead; I don't know how to pick individual notes. Would like to do more flatpicking (I like playing loud, and the fingerpicking I've done isn't that loud, and I don't do much of it, since I have to read tab to do it and don't want to be stuck with that).

What do you think? I like the idea of practicing scales for some reason.

Siwash, don't just practice scales. Stick a C chord progression on a disc or a tape and practice the c major or pentatonic scale over it. Not necessarily just up and down but jump around inside the scale throwing in some slides and bends. That makes learning the scale a lot lot more fun and is actually improvisation.

C234 Am234 F234 G234 repeat

 

[Graham]

Siwash, don't just practice scales. Stick a C chord progression on a disc or a tape and practice the c major or pentatonic scale over it. Not necessarily just up and down but jump around inside the scale throwing in some slides and bends. That makes learning the scale a lot lot more fun and is actually improvisation.

C234 Am234 F234 G234 repeat

This is just another place where my ignorance can shine.

What?

Graham :shock:

 

[West R Lee]

Not just you Graham, I'm pretty ignorant too when it comes to REAL guitar talk. Bingster, can you enlighten us?

West :?

 

[Bing k]

The C chord progression is something you already do if you've been playing chords for very long. The 3 primary chords used in modern music are easy to identity using the scale around which the Key is built.
Let's use the Key of C for the example but the rules apply to all major keys; A through G.
In the key of C weather speaking of the C scale or the C chord the "root " is the note C. The C Major scale contains the notes: C D E F G A B C. Remember your first grade music lesson: Doe- ray- me-fa-so-la-tee-doe. Same concept.
The 3 primary chords in any major key are named by the 1st, 4th and 5th note of the scale. In the case of C it's C, F and G. 1, 4, and 5.
These are major chords and they have a relatively "happy" sound. To add some "color" to our chord progression lets use what we call the "relative minor" a "sad" sounding chord. In the Key of C the relative minor is A minor.
So now we have our chord progression we are going to play in our practice session.

C Am F G. 4 counts of each or 8 or any number of measures you choose in 4/4 time. 4/4 time is good to learn in because we all listen to so much music that has the 4/4 time signature. It's something most of us are used to hearing.

C234 Am234 F234 G234 C234 repeat. in this example I have come back to the root chord "C" to end the progression as well as start it. Play it over and over and you have the "background" music for practicing the C Major scale. Leave off the last C chord if you choose.

Now lets add the C scale to the mix. There several places to find a C major scale on the neck of the guitar. We are going to focus on just one for now.

Most instructors start with the open position scales but because I have many very young students who have trouble reaching the nut of a dreadnought I start them in the Fifth fret. The scale we are going to learn is the C Major scale and then we modify it to the C Pentatonic scale.

Grab your guitar. All major scales are built exactly the same.
Whole step, Whole Step, half step, Whole step, Whole step, Whole step, half step, ascending from root to root (C to C) Each fret is a "half step" so it takes 2 frets to make a hole step.

We are going to apply the "finger per fret rule" in this exercise just to keep us straight about where each finger plays each note.
Your index finger will play in the 5th fret
Your middle finger will play in the 6th fret
Your ring finger will play in the 7th fret
Your pinky will play in the 8th fret.
If you lay your hand on the neck with your index between the 4th and 5th fret you will see how to apply the rule.

We are going to play on the G string, the B string, and E string, the bottom three strings on the neck just to get a simple scale going.
remember to use the finger per fret rule.


Fret the G string in the 5th fret, index finger, play C
Fret the G string in the 7th fret, ring finger, play D (whole step)
Fret the B string in the 5th fret, index finger, play E (whole step)
Fret the B string in the 6th fret, middle finger, play F (half step)
Fret the B string in the 8th fret, play G pinky, (whole step)
Fret the E string in the 5th fret, index finger, play A (whole step)
Fret the E string in the 7th fret, ring finger, play B (whole step)
Fret the E string in the 8th fret, pinky, play C (half step)

Do it a few times and then do it backwards.
this is one octave of C major.

Don't over complicate it.

If you like patterns here it is.

e string A-BC
b string EF-G
g string C-D-

Here it is in tab
-----C--D---E---F----G----A---B----C---B--A----G----F-----E---D----C
E---------------------------5---7----8---7---5----------------------------
B-----------5---6----8-----------------------------8----6----5-----------
G--5---7-----------------------------------------------------------7-----5-
D----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A--------------------------------------------------------------------------
E---------------------------------------------------------------------------

to Play a C pentatonic scale leave out the F and B. It makes it a 5 note scale thus the name "penta"

Here is another neat pattern for the C pentatonic that gets you around on the fret board. Shown in tab, note:slide from D to E
-----G--A---C--D--E---G--A---C--D--E-G--A--C----D----E
E--------------------------------------------------8---10---12--
B------------------------------------------8--10---------------
G--------------------------------5--7--9---------------------------
D-------------------------5--7------------------------------------------
A-------------3--5--7-------------------------------------------------------
E-----3--5---------------------------------------------------------------------

I posted this with a Mac using Safari so if it looks like a wreck let me know and I'll work on it.

 

[Jeff]

Way to go Bing!! Nice scale up the neck. I can figure a C scale out since there are no sharps or flats but it's quicker with a picture. I'm finding the more I listen to the do-re- me chromatic scales the easier it is to learn additional scales by ear.

Now if I can just remember it's the F & the B left out to make the pentatonic scale. I think it might be more useful to memorize it by the numbers f = 4th note in the scale & b = 7th. Then you only have to memorize it once to apply it to all keys. It's easier to visualize on a piano because everything is in a straight line with the sharps & flats identified by those funny little black things.

Free theory her at LTG, What a place.

It's reinforcing the numbers discussion I had with my instructor yesterday. Some discussion of why in blues it's an "A" scale played over the E chord progression & the relationships of the 4th's resulting in a mixelodian relationship of some kind. I left in a fog, but I had his demo recorded on my JamMan & a fresh drawing.

Thanks

Jeff

 

[Graham]

Wow Bing. That's going to take some re-reading and hacking around, but I like the way you laid it out there.

Don, you and Bing and any others who teach or are exceptional students should collaborate on a lessons thread for us struggling hackers.

Have to figure out the part of "what's in it for me (you guys) yet"

Graham

 

[california]

Don, you and Bing and any others who teach or are exceptional students should collaborate on a lessons thread for us struggling hackers.

Graham

Graham, this is a totally brilliant suggestion. We could also share some of our own lesson input, and maybe post some tabs.

 

[Bing k]

Jeff's right about relating to the piano. If you understand how a keyboard is laid out it helps the fingerboard make sense also.

The thing about learning a Key on the guitar is that every major key is the same.

If you move every thing we've gone over over to a different starting point you're in a different key.

Put your index finger in the 7th fret in the first example. That's one whole step. Now you can play in the key of D. D E F# G A B C# D

Now before everybody gets carried away with patterns, start applying the theory were are learning to a music score so we can read music from the page.

One needs to be able to read the notes written on a score by someone else.
It's like reading the words on this page.

 

[doc]

I been reading these posts and decided to jump in:

Bing K- You inspired me to look for all the c scales I could find on the fret board and sing them, do...re...me..fa and I think that really is helping me with my ears and scale knowledge. I have been getting crazy learning about scales and chords again. I have been down this road about 30 years ago with my first and only guitar teacher a guy that was a fellow student with Charlie Byrd when they studied with Sophocles Papas in DC and they use to gig around DC. If I only knew what I know now then...... a blast from the past. And he taught me free lessons for 4 years. Then after he moved away to the West Coast and I did very little with the guitar and then studied music along with three other majors while at the university in the late 80's then a long dry spell. Then two years ago jumped back in, they say better late then never! So I am doing a lot of catching up...... :shock:

Dklsplace: Oh before I forget on the subject of dyslexia, that child probably doesn't have a dyslexic ear or hand, or possibly his voice, and so will find it liberating that he can experience success at a level he is capable of attaining. This will be a transferable experience into other areas and probably encourage him to push on to success. I have a little of that in myself and I didn't do bad after I got past what others thought about it 8)

 

[Siwash]

Bing: thanks. I've got a piano scale book, so I'll trot out some paper and jot some of this stuff out. I really need to begin having a notion of how to play some leads or runs.

 

[Siwash]

. . . in other words, I'm at a point where I feel like I'm the slow student in class and I'd better catch up with the rest.

 

[Jeff]

Siwash says

I'm the slow student in class and I'd better catch up with the rest.

Si,

Me talking about all this & actually doing it so's anybody but me cares are two completely different issues.

You aren't likely the last in line here.

Let me say tonight's practice has so far been some kind of fun.

Thanks to Bing's input I sat down & ran a "C" pentatonic; by the numbers first time thru. Busted out laughing.

Then Mark's remark about the flatted "3 rd" came to mind so I gave that a run, sure enough there's room in the blues for a flatted "3rd".

Tech talk, I would have never imagined. What a place to hang out,

Thanks everyone.

 

[West R Lee]

Hey Siwash,

I've been here a while and been playing for about 40 years and don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about. I'm not leaving though!

West

 

[john_kidder]

Thanks to Bing's input I sat down & ran a "C" pentatonic; by the numbers first time thru. Busted out laughing. Then Mark's remark about the flatted "3 rd" came to mind so I gave that a run, sure enough there's room in the blues for a flatted "3rd".

Jeff - I'm no teacher, but the discovery (for me) of the "blues scale", along with Bing's I-IV-V-VIm progression, has made me get pretty loud here at home sometimes, imagining that I might be a blues player, and finding it - for the first time in my life - relatively easy to play along, solos even, with lots of recordings.

Blues scale - 1,b3,4,b5,5,b7,1. Standard 12-bar blues progression: I234,I234,I234,I234,IV234,IV234,I234,I234,V234,IV234,I234,I234. Get that JC90 down off the shelf and plug Midnite in, and you're off. It's just too much fun.

And if your teacher has been kind enough to give you a few movable chord forms, you can play the blues in any key, anywhere on the guitar, as long as you want or until the Redhead kills you, whatever comes first. The combination of this Nightbird guitar and a new, mint, T1-12 amp has caused my negotiations with Siri to require summit leveln diplomacy every now and then. Wait till I get my recapped and retubed Thunderbass back from the tech, with my reconditioned 2x10 cab - I may be moving permanently up to Ashcroft in the (now-quiet) countryside.

Happy New Year.

 

[Jeff]

John Said

for the first time in my life - relatively easy to play along, solos even, with lots of recordings.

Amen my brother, I started recognizing certain blues chord progressions just a short time ago. First started trying a capo to find the key & then realized most of them are the same & once you find the root chord the numbers will do the rest.

Tonight I used the JamMan & played several tunes the way I normally
play them, set them on loop & noodled around the same chords in different position up the neck. Spent a bunch of energy transposing roots & what not till I started hearing the roots & got totally sidetracked. Slow going till I started remembering the routes (patterns) that worked. It was fun but the time would have been better spent memorizing the scales up there.

So far the only guitars that reproduce well enough on the jamman that I'd want to share with anyone are the F 20 & the DC5E. The F 20 actually comes thru fairly accurately & responded very well to a soft touch & let the amp do the volume. The DV 62 sounds ok thru the stuff I'm using but no where near as nice as the guitar unplugged. The D 25 is worse, it'd sound better with a sock in it, matter of fact it sounds so bad thru the mike I think I will try it with a sock in it.

 

[doc]

Would anyone be interested in me posting some internet sites that have free lessons on them.
Anyone interested in classical type music? :shock:
http://www.classtab.org/ You can download the entire site zipped complete with some midis and tabs in notepad and very readable. The music uses your browser. After you unzip the file look for the "index" as spelled in the music files and will in alpha order. In other words go to "I" and see the file titled "index". I did a shortcut to my desktop of the index and use it to assess the music files, hundreds of them. :shock:

Then there is more.....:twisted:

Power Tab is freeware and actually plays the music and there are around 1500 music files to accessed, all at the comfort and offline. If you want I can post the addresses for those also. 8) These are just resources for learning and the music is just good enough to learn from and wouldn't be my first choice for entertainment! As far as I can tell there are no copyright issues with any of this music due to some inaccuracies and used only for study. :lol:

 

[guildzilla]

Just read this thread.

Bing, that was a very, very helpful perspective on where to start and how to get "there" from "here." It inspired me, too. Thanks for taking the time to post and explain all of that so well.

A couple of my opinions about lessons and learning guitar:

One is to take every opportunity to play informally with other people. It takes a little time to build a musical rapport with another player or group of players, but once you establish that, you get a lot of insight and inspiration and you find yourself getting better at a faster rate.

Second is that lessons help most if the instructor's perspective is to coach the guitar player, rather than teach guitar, especially for the older guy who mainly wants to build on what they already know and improve.