I've Earned the Right To Bitch

richardp69

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Look, I'm old, I'm a Curmudgeon and I'm grouchy as hell. All that, I believe, gives me the right.

So, I often times hear stories about horrible sellers with shady character or outright deceivers or liars. And, they are out there. But, I've been selling guitars online for20 years or so and would guess I've sold somewhere in the 200 to 300 range if not more.

I've had three bad experiences as a buyer, 2 on Ebay and 1 on Reverb. But they were all handled to my satisfaction with little to no hassle or effort on my part. I wish I could say the same as a seller. I've likely had about a dozen horrible experiences there and most have been from one state (which will stay anonymous to avoid any bad feelings here on this forum). Here's the 3 I remember best.

1.) I just recently sold a really fine Jumbo RW on Reverb. No issues, no problems, just a great guitar. I received a screaming, profane message from the buyer saying it reeked of cigarette smoke and he could actually feel the tar on the guitar strings. I find that interesting because I don't smoke, I'm the original owner and the guitar has never been gigged. I likely should have refused his request for a refund but I don't like battles so I just caved. He later sent me a message saying, sorry, my wife was so mad I bought a guitar she made my life miserable so I asked to return it. Now there's a real stand up guy willing to fight for and stand up for what he believes in.

2.) I sold a nice PRS double cut electric on Ebay. At the time I had a no questions asked return policy. (no longer). The guy bought the guitar, paid quickly and then a week later asked for his money back. When I asked why he freely admitted he needed a guitar for a gig and his was out of commission. Because I had a return policy Ebay said I had to honor that request. The thing is, the guy acted like that was his right and he didn't do anything wrong. And, even worse, Ebay backed him up not because he was right, but because I had a return policy.

This is getting too long so I won't give any more examples. It just confirms for me that I belong in the middle of the woods, all by myself with my Dogs, Cats, Guitars and Guns as my only trusted companions.

I hope all of you had better selling experiences.
 

Westerly Wood

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you are a stand-up dude, Richard, that I know!
Everyone here who has ever bought or sold a Guild to/from you has raved about the experience.
You really do have your own Guild guitar shop. Your inventory rivals any big shop out there that sells Guilds.
I often stroll over to your reverb shop to peruse what you have. And I miss your signature list of guitars by name. I know it's a lot of effort to type it all out, but I prefer it to your current sig :).
 

walrus

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Richard, I love the thread title! Absolutely a song there!

walrus
 

dreadnut

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I had a buyer recently that got all cheesed off because there was a strap hole drilled in the upper bout but no strap button. I figured he would just install a strap button. In retrospect, I should have done it myself. Anyway, he demanded a $50 refund because of "undisclosed damage." Rather than fight about it and get bad reviews I gave him the refund, then he was happier than a pig in stuff. By the way, it was a beautiful big Guild B-302 Ash lefty in very good condition.
 

wileypickett

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I would have called a real person at eBay (if it was an eBay sale) and asked that they review their decision re: guy buying a guitar for a gig then sending it back when the gig was over.

That's not buying in good faith and borders on fraud, IMO. Like buying a wedding dress and returning it after the wedding.

At least you should have been able to charge a rental fee!
 

Stuball48

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I would play "Black Jack" on the phone with Richard and let him deal.
I, too, miss his signature of all his guitars and check his "Gee Tar Bar" everyday.
 

HeyMikey

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I've been on Ebay since 1997. I used to sell a lot there. I cut way back to almost zilch since they went way too far to the buyer side, stopped allowing negative buyer feedback, and set return policies which encourage alot of abuse and fraud.

Merchandise "rental" has unfortunately become a thing with some people these days as too much of our society has lost its moral compass. My parents owned a jewelry store years ago in a well-to-do town . We had to set a return policy for credit only on high dollar items. The trophy wives had a habit of buying pieces for their weekend gala events and then returning them a few days later. Rinse and repeat. So we had to clamp down. We even had a newspaper photo of one wealthy woman at an black tie event wearing an expensive necklace she purchased , but then returned it claiming she just didn't like it.
 
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crank

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Ex's uncle used to work for a department store chain and told me a story about how he was touring a store in the spring and noticed a ton of returned lawn spreaders. he asked the manager about it. Happens every year, he was told, people buy them use them and then return them.

I guess it can happen with guitars as well. Maybe I should buy, err borrow? that Taylor T5 hybrid at my local Sam Ash for my next gig. lol
 

fronobulax

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First time I heard of merchandise "rental" was when flat screen TVs were just becoming mainstream. Stores would sell out on the Friday before Super Bowl and the lines for returns on Monday went around the block. I'm not sure I would do it but I understand the temptation when the letter of the rules does not capture the spirit.
 

Cougar

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...I hope all of you had better selling experiences.

Unfortunately I had a bad experience on the last guitar I sold on reverb - the Martin GPC12PA4 12-string. Well, fortunately it ended OK, but the buyer, though "polite," was just a pain in the backside, especially when she made a refund request. But let's start from the beginning...

All the while she was crying poor. I had put the guitar up as the lowest priced one on reverb. It had a little scratch on the back of the neck, but was otherwise in excellent shape. Nobody was buying, so I reduced the price even more. She shows up with an offer even lower. Well, fine, I needed to unload it, so I accepted.

Then she finds out, OMG, she's got to pay tax on the purchase, whining she's at the end of her budget, asking would I reduce the shipping charge? Fine, just get outta my hair, girl!

So she gets the guitar, she's happy, gives me a 5-star review. Damn straight!

A month and 2 days later, she contacts me with a refund request! Says the action is high past the 6th fret, claiming the guitar was "not as described." Basically says she can't afford a setup! Not my problem! I sent her a polite and detailed response why I was denying her request. Undaunted, she went ahead and filed a refund request through reverb. A month after the purchase. Really?

Well, reverb contacted me and basically said that I did not have to refund her money because she filed the request too late. I think they want to hear about it within 7 days, otherwise, forget it! Thank you reverb!
 

dreadnut

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Yeah, I sold a nice lefty '95 Taylor T-5, mint condition, deluxe hsc, case candy, etc, $1,400. Three weeks later buyer messages me and says it's way out of adjustment and barely playable. But I had a lefty friend who played it just before I sold it, and he loved it, but he bought the Guild F5CE instead.

So, I pointed out to the seller that if that were in fact the case, it must have happened in shipping. And that three weeks is a long time to decide you don't like a guitar. And my policy was "no returns" as well. At worst, he just needed to take it to his luthier and have it set up to his preference. I think he just got "buyer's remorse."

Never heard back from him. Again, that guitar was mint, and sold for a fair price.

I recently sold a bunch of stuff on Reverb, and the majority of it went just fine. Just a couple hiccups including this one which cost me nothing.

Although I must say I'm happy to be out of the sales and shipping business now!
 

davismanLV

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Unfortunately I had a bad experience on the last guitar I sold on reverb - the Martin GPC12PA4 12-string. Well, fortunately it ended OK, but the buyer, though "polite," was just a pain in the backside, especially when she made a refund request. But let's start from the beginning...

All the while she was crying poor. I had put the guitar up as the lowest priced one on reverb. It had a little scratch on the back of the neck, but was otherwise in excellent shape. Nobody was buying, so I reduced the price even more. She shows up with an offer even lower. Well, fine, I needed to unload it, so I accepted.

Then she finds out, OMG, she's got to pay tax on the purchase, whining she's at the end of her budget, asking would I reduce the shipping charge? Fine, just get outta my hair, girl!

So she gets the guitar, she's happy, gives me a 5-star review. Damn straight!

A month and 2 days later, she contacts me with a refund request! Says the action is high past the 6th fret, claiming the guitar was "not as described." Basically says she can't afford a setup! Not my problem! I sent her a polite and detailed response why I was denying her request. Undaunted, she went ahead and filed a refund request through reverb. A month after the purchase. Really?

Well, reverb contacted me and basically said that I did not have to refund her money because she filed the request too late. I think they want to hear about it within 7 days, otherwise, forget it! Thank you reverb!
Cougar that's INSANE!! I know that guitar and Don has one just like it. They're awfully nice although I'm not much of a 12 string player. But since he was considering selling his I showed him your ad and he was like, "You're KIDDING?" And I said, "No, and look how good of shape it's in and the other's that are listed are just sitting there!" He said, "Forget it, I'll just keep it." which is fine with me. But you were low to begin with and then with her worrying you down...... glad you didn't take it back. Pushy little b**ch, wasn't she?? Wow......

My one and only sale on Reverb during the height of COVID-19 went so perfectly well I was super pleased. Especially when I hear stories like these above. :eek:
 

Guildedagain

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It's a numbers game. The more you do it, the more it happens. When I was wheeling and dealing like crazy almost 20 years ago, I had more bum transactions that I could ever remember.

Guitar people have usually been pretty good to me. Cameras I had a couple memorable experiences with. One, a guy in NY buys two really cherry Nikon manual focus lenses that were my own from my F3hp outfit, $400. Prior to the sale, the guy had actually asked for my phone number so I could go over the condition of the glass over the phone, which I checked out in a sunny kitchen window, gorgeous.

He gets them, and then calls me again. Wants to send them back. Says he found an "even more beautiful lens on eBay", and wants me to check it out, so beautiful. We're looking at it together and he has to have it he says, and would I refund right now so he can buy the other one before it gets away?

It was hard but I had to tell him he'd actually have to ship them back to me and I'd have to receive them in the same condition before issuing the refund. And he did send them back, and I resold them to a very happy buyer.

Then, another NYC'er gal bought a rare film camera I bought new, a Yashica T4, boy did that take amazing pictures. $400 also, a bit of a cult classic. After using it for a week, she says it's got some issue and I said would you take it to a camera shop and have them check it out? She said no, I'm sending it back. The camera comes back minus the brand new Varta battery that she robbed for another camera she found cheaper and some cosmetic damage, possibly even dropped. I got into it with her, and she filed for a refund with eBay and they gave it to her instant.

On the phone, customer support told me that "it's like having a store and people shoplift".

I had to put it back on eBay damaged for $200 and never heard a peep of a complaint from the buyer.
 

Pike

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I have bought and sold dozens of guitars over the years, on EBay, Reverb, Craigslist and through a local shop. Some very top end models I might add. Only one bad experience. I generally play them for a while, make any necessary adjustments, then sell for a profit. I don’t become attached to any of them. I become attached to the music they make. And Guild guitars make some absolutely beautiful music.
 

Quantum Strummer

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I personally never sell guitars online. Instead I take 'em to Elderly Instruments and either put 'em on consignment or more often trade 'em for something else. Less cash in my pocket but less fuss and hassle too (aside from making the drive out to Lansing and back).

-Dave-
 

richardp69

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I personally never sell guitars online. Instead I take 'em to Elderly Instruments and either put 'em on consignment or more often trade 'em for something else. Less cash in my pocket but less fuss and hassle too (aside from making the drive out to Lansing and back).

-Dave-

Yeah, I hear ya, but I'm just not ready (at least at this point in my life) to take the financial hit that accompanies that. Less hassle for sure but I kinda enjoy (for the most part) the on line buying and selling experience. I've met some fine folks I still stay in contact with to this day. Although the examples I pointed out are pretty mind boggling (at least to me) they represent a miniscule part of my selling experience.

Yeah, I know, then I should shut my mouth and quit bitching. But sometimes I really like to bitch I guess. Goes along with being a curmudgeon.
 

walrus

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Yeah, I know, then I should shut my mouth and quit bitching. But sometimes I really like to bitch I guess. Goes along with being a curmudgeon.

After a certain age, this is defintely allowed, and in fact, expected!

walrus
 

HeyMikey

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This subject is worthwhile to discuss periodically if for nothing more than a reminder to take precautions when buying and selling on line to protect yourself from being taken advantage by the occasional low life.

This is especially beneficial to those who don’t do it often and are either not aware or unintentionally overlook things that one might not normally consider versus the traditional face to face transaction.

This is also why I much prefer to trade with established forum members who by nature and history are more knowledgeable, civil and trustworthy.
 

jp

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1.) I just recently sold a really fine Jumbo RW on Reverb. No issues, no problems, just a great guitar. I received a screaming, profane message from the buyer saying it reeked of cigarette smoke and he could actually feel the tar on the guitar strings. I find that interesting because I don't smoke, I'm the original owner and the guitar has never been gigged. I likely should have refused his request for a refund but I don't like battles so I just caved. He later sent me a message saying, sorry, my wife was so mad I bought a guitar she made my life miserable so I asked to return it. Now there's a real stand up guy willing to fight for and stand up for what he believes in.

One of the major lessons I've learned in life about unreasonable conflicts is that 99% of the time, they are caused by people who are trying to make their problems your problems. This is a classic case.

2.) I sold a nice PRS double cut electric on Ebay. At the time I had a no questions asked return policy. (no longer). The guy bought the guitar, paid quickly and then a week later asked for his money back. When I asked why he freely admitted he needed a guitar for a gig and his was out of commission. Because I had a return policy Ebay said I had to honor that request. The thing is, the guy acted like that was his right and he didn't do anything wrong. And, even worse, Ebay backed him up not because he was right, but because I had a return policy.

This is just like the people who buy clothes to wear them for one occasion and then return them. I'm shocked at how many people do this.

I've been fortunate to only have had a few major issues on eBay: two from misrepresenting the guitars and one kid who refused to pay for my amp after pulling the trigger.

It was no surprise that at the root of these problems was the major lesson mentioned above in number one.
 
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