I'm a Boob when it comes to Tubes

Csquare4

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Btw...I found the owners manual here:

http://ampwares.com/schematics/Twin_Amp.pdf

and the schematic here:

http://ampwares.com/schematics/Twin_Pro_Tube_Amp_SchE45.pdf

The Phase Inverter tube is V4 and it is a 12AX7 type, which is good, these are actually easier to find at the generic music store. Any brand will do, I would probably get the lowest cost one here, such as a JJ or whatever the local store has. If you are buying online from Tube Depot or whatever, you have a broader selection but have to pay shipping...this tube will not effect your tone too much (if at all), so it really doesn't make sense to drop big money on this particular tube location.

For the power tubes, in the owner's manual there is instructions on biasing the power tubes should you decide to replace those. While it may seem complicated, if you follow these instructions step-by-step, you will see it really is no big deal. Nothing against guitar techs that are trying to make a living, but why spend the money for their "bench/bias" charge when you can easily do this yourself?


Output Tube Bias Adjustment Instructions —
1. Turn on the amplifier and let it warm up for at least two minutes
with the STANDBY SWITCH (item C) in the ON position and the
OUTPUT SWITCH (item D) in the OUTPUT HIGH position.
2. With a digital voltmeter set to its most sensitive DC voltage scale,
measure the voltage between the two BIAS TEST POINTS (item K)
labeled “BIAS” and adjust the OUTPUT BIAS ADJUST control (item J)
for a reading of .08 VDC (80 mVDC).
3. Connect the digital voltmeter to the two BIAS TEST POINTS (item
K) labeled “BALANCE” and adjust the OUTPUT BALANCE ADJUST
control (item L) for 0 VDC.
Notes:
1. Make bias and balance adjustments only when necessary. If you
are unsure about setting bias and balance, it is best to LEAVE THIS
FEATURE ALONE, as it is pre-set at the factory.
2. For optimum sonic performance, set bias to .08 VDC, then set balance.
3. For optimum sonic performance with increased tube life, set bias
to .06 VDC, then set balance.
4. For optimum tube life, set bias to .04 VDC, then set balance. If a
bias measurement of .04 VDC cannot be obtained, replace the
6L6GC output tubes.
5. If the output tubes can’t be balanced, check the bias setting
and/or replace the 6L6GC output tubes.
 

capnjuan

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Hi Craig; we need to wait to hear from Ravon about his tech-nicity. If he can't clean the pots/sockets/jacks then, respectfully, he has no business fiddling with the bias.

Yes, we could figure it out but he has the amp in front of him. Fixing amps via post-and-reply ... been there, done that, and I have the T-shirt.

If it isn't something straightforward ... well ... life's too short.
 

Ravon

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Craig, I really appreciate yours and everyones input and the time it takes to make these posts. If it were as simple as pulling a tube out I'd try it but I really should not attempt any biasing, cleaning the pots,etc. I come from a family of engineers but it unfortunately goes right over my head. I can't say how much I admire everyone's expertise. I AM a boob when it comes to stuff like this :oops: Even though I won't attempt to do these things someone here could really benefit from it. The tutorial here would certainly make a good sticky or at least a good reference. Thanks again!
 

capnjuan

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Gents: I offer This LTG thread as an object lesson in the limitations of screwing with amps by post-and-reply where the person seeking help has technical limitations. It's long so pack a lunch. Ravon; don't get hung up in the techno-jabber, just read it for the sense of thing. Anyway; if there ever was an example of a couple of people screwing themselves into the ground over an amp ... this is it.

Unless things change between now and the end of the year, member beinhard will win LTG's Award for Perseverance in a show of hands. (Member Dreadnut locks up the Humanitarian Award every year so don't even bother).

Good luck with your amp Ravon; I hope it does justice to those beautiful Guilds.

Almost forgot ... Dum ditty dum ditty dum ... ditty ditty dum ... :D
 

RussB

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Ravon said:
Yeah, I was told Groove Tubes are used by Fender now and which I'll probably have to end up using if a search for the Special Design ones proves fruitless. Which is fine but just wanted to keep'm all the same :)

The tubes that are in your amp are the Sovtek 5881WXT+. There is nothing "Special" about them. They are your basic "vanilla" Russian power tube.

If you do choose to replace them, it's good practice to replace them all at once and have a tech adjust the bias at the same time. A quadof these will run you about $60-80
 

Ravon

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Thanks Russ. Those marketing dogs! I'll go ahead and replace'm all. Thanks for the heads up on the price as well. Probably will take it in tomorrow if I feel like lifting the beast into the bed of the truck :)
 

Csquare4

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capnjuan said:
Gents: I offer This LTG thread as an object lesson in the limitations of screwing with amps by post-and-reply where the person seeking help has technical limitations. It's long so pack a lunch. Ravon; don't get hung up in the techno-jabber, just read it for the sense of thing. Anyway; if there ever was an example of a couple of people screwing themselves into the ground over an amp ... this is it.

So!?! What was the resolution? I just read that whole thread, ha ha, and I be danged, but was it the Relay or not?? I hate when they leave you hangin'.

But, Capn, point well taken. I did like the reference to throwing the gun at 'em, ha ha.
 

Csquare4

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Ravon said:
Thanks Russ. Those marketing dogs! I'll go ahead and replace'm all. Thanks for the heads up on the price as well. Probably will take it in tomorrow if I feel like lifting the beast into the bed of the truck :)

Ravon - before you go out and drop mucho dinero on the 12AX7's...you should know that the chances of them all being toast is pretty slim. Yeah, replace your power tubes, and your PI tube, and buy a new Tung-sol 12AX7 for V1, but unless you wanna go all out, you probably don't have to.

I still think you can bias the power tubes yourself...you don't have to pull the chassis since you have external bias test points and bias pots and there is no high voltage to deal with. Really, if you have a multimeter and a small slotted screw driver you can do it. Follow those instructions above.

And, whatever you find out, please come back and let us know! Don't leave us hangin' man!

Craig
 

capnjuan

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Csquare4 said:
... but was it the Relay or not?? I hate when they leave you hangin'.
Yes; there were three relays; a time-delay relay that I think was working; the other two were shot ... they were the 'soft-start' relays feeding the speakers and at least one of resistors was burned open.

There's a more modern relay with the same characteristics but its footprint and pinout didn't match the old ones and I think one of the traces on the bottom of the board was gone.

When bienhard finally convinced him the old relay board was shot, the OP started asking beinhard to help him scratch-build another ... I think that's when bienhard 'Unsubscribed'. :lol: Incidentally, beinhard is in Norway some 4-5 hours behind EST so he was up til all hours of the night trying to help all because the OP was desperately clinging to his nice but built-with-obsolete-parts Guild amp.

Csquare4 said:
I did like the reference to throwing the gun at 'em, ha ha.
It got a little crazy ... Al and I were figuratively asked to take our seats and stop talking during class ... The good news was that I got the tar-baby off me ... :D
 

Csquare4

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Ouch John! I read that whole thread and thought you and Bienhard sure were being extremely generous with your time and effort on that one. I get your point though, definitely food for thought.

I (and I feel many others) certainly do appreciate your contribution on threads such as this though. I learn a lot from reading them. While I have a background in electronics and have been doing design and troubleshooting for the better part of 25 years, I still learn a lot from folks such as yourself when it comes to tube amps.

Ok - Ravon - back to the regular scheduled programming...didn't mean to hijack your thread.
 

capnjuan

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Hi Craig; a long time ago, Hans Moust set the LTG standard for helping people; patiently answering question after question ... when was my Guild made ... when did Guild move its X-bracing 3/256ths inch closer to the soundhole ... will my chick like me more if I buy this guitar ... on and on. Since he knows more about his stuff than the rest of us do about ours, it follows that, in the immortal words of Bobby Jones, famous golfer and amp tech: _____________ :D
 

Ravon

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I'll let ya'll know, I'm taking it in today. Just gotta get myself psyched into lifting 80lbs. up into the truck. Better stretch my back first :(
 

Ravon

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Just got it back yesterday. My tech pinpointed a power tube that was bad so he talked me into the Gold series GT's. I went ahead and just had him replace all 4 of them. Pricey enough. I felt like the #4 in these would give me a middle ground on breakup. He re-biased the voltage to 65 mVDC for a little more headroom as it was set at 80 mVDC (ml.volts ?) I bought the amp in 'new/used' condition in the mid-'90's. My tech found that the previous owner had switched the speaker wires out of phase to give a stereo effect. I didn't realize that so I had him reverse them back to the more original and direct sound. The impedence had been set at 8ohms so he set it back to 16ohm where its supposed to be (according to the manual) as well. Cleaned the pots and now a great sounding amp again! I couldn't be happier :D I'm less a boob about it now. Also *edit*, since I've had it I always suspected that there was something done to the amp because it has a 'Green' jem lamp. So its my assumption that he changed the lamp to green from red after doing this mod (???)
 

capnjuan

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Ravon said:
... He re-biased the voltage to 65 mVDC for a little more headroom as it was set at 80 mVDC (ml.volts?) The impedence had been set at 8ohms so he set it back to 16ohm where its supposed to be (according to the manual) as well. Cleaned the pots and now a great sounding amp again! I couldn't be happier :D I'm less a boob about it now
Hi Ravon: you pic has an extra set of brackets. Here are your new tubes:

109.jpg



Congratulations on getting your amp straightened out!
 

Ravon

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Thanks Captain! Showing of course are the originals in the new boxes
 

capnjuan

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Ok ... old tubes ...new boxes :D

I put a set of expensive GT #3 6L6s in a re-powered Thunderbass head. 6L6s aren't my favorite flavor but they were clean and warm.

I
like2.jpg
them.
 
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