I'm a Boob when it comes to Tubes

Ravon

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Hi all. I have a Fender Twin Amp and when I plug my guitar in you can barely hear it other than a scratchy fuzzy noise. It sounds like that on all channels. I called a friend who owns a guitar store and does amp and guitar repair as well. He said it sounds like a power tube and its basically a process of elimination and that I could do it myself (we'll see :wink:) . It has the original Fender Special Design 6L6 WGC/5881 but I've googled that and I can't find anything Fender. I guess any brand will do but I'd kinda like to keep the Fender logo. Any suggestions from you knowledgable people? Thanks
 

dapmdave

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Probably not an issue to have non-Fender branded tubes. They don't actually make the tubes.

Dave :D
 

RussB

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Although it could be a tube problem...it also may be something else

Fender bought out "Groove Tubes" and that's what they put in their amps these days. The tubes will either be of Russian or Chinese manufacture.


http://tubesandmore.com/
 

Ravon

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RussB said:
Although it could be a tube problem...it also may be something else

Fender bought out "Groove Tubes" and that's what they put in their amps these days. The tubes will either be of Russian or Chinese manufacture.


http://tubesandmore.com/
Yeah, I was told Groove Tubes are used by Fender now and which I'll probably have to end up using if a search for the Special Design ones proves fruitless. Which is fine but just wanted to keep'm all the same :)
 

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Could be a couple of things. It's like that on both channels? Tried it through different cables?
 

Ravon

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Default said:
Could be a couple of things. It's like that on both channels? Tried it through different cables?
Used two different cables...same result in both channels. I can barely hear the guitar come through but the static and scratchy sound comes through loud and clear and is constant(not just when I play a note). The sound will disappear when I have it on -0- and get louder when turned up. EDIT - the sound of the fretted note is not clear it is fuzzy as well
 

Csquare4

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Could be one or more of a lot of things, but this is what I would check in order:

1) Depending on the age, even if the Power tubes are not bad, they will be eventually. Have you noticed the sound not seeming as loud, or you have to really crank it to get any volume? A Fender Twin should be pretty loud on about 3-4, if you have noticed having to go up to 6-7, I suggest your tubes were going. Power tube's generally die slowly. You will be stunned, amazed, stupified, elated (and any number of additional descriptions) when you put in a new set of tubes and fire it up. You will have one of those angelic chorus epiphanies. Unfortunately, you will likely have to bias the amp, so unless you are comfortable with this process, you should probably find you a tech.

Since it is effecting both channels, it is likely either the power tubes or...

2) The Phase Inverter tube, which depending on which version of the amp you have is likely a 12AT7 (or 12AX7). This is probably V4, again depending on the circuit. You should buy some spare tubes anyway, 12AT7's and 12AX7's are cheap. Here the NOS Philips 12AT7 are available for a great price...I would definitely buy one or two (in fact I have!). If it is a 12AX7, just buy a few of those, I like JJ's or Ei's (if you can find them) for Phase Inverters, but any brand will work. If you are buying for the pre-amp tubes, V1, V2, etc, I would go with the Tung-Sols or Mullards if you don't want to pay the extra for NOS. Just buy some and rotate them around. You will be surprised how different the tubes in V1/V2 can effect the "character" of the amp. Point is, tubes go bad, you have to replace them.

3) If it is not the tubes, then next most likely from the sounds of what you are describing, would be something in the power section. I would check the B+ voltages, to see if you are getting the appropriate range of DC Volts to the plates of the tubes. Most likely problem here is the diodes that rectify the AC from the transformer into DC for the tubes. Either these or the Filter Caps are shot. Depending on the age of the amp, the filter caps will need to be replaced anyway. Again, unless you know your way around, I would probably take this to a tech.

Start with the power tubes and phase inverter though. 9 times out of 10, that will fix what ails you when you are getting what you are describing.

On the tubes:

I would suggest you not be constrained to sticking with the "Fender" branded or Groove Tubes. I know you want to keep the "Fender" look, etc., but people don't "hear" the Fender labels on they tubes, but they can definitely "hear" the tubes.

Any 6L6GC is compatible, most 5881's are. I think the Groove Tubes are either the Sovtek or Shuguang/Sino (Chinese) brands if I recall...which while decent, most people would agree that neither of them are as warm and full as some of the other brands. Some call them flat. They don't work for me...in fact, I tend to recommend to my friends that buy "new" Fender amps, to pull the Fender tubes and store them for when/if they sell the amp. I really, really like the Tung-Sol 6L6GC reissues. Their 5881's are sweet too in tweed style Fenders where you want a bluesier early breakup.

Anyways, food for thought.

Craig
 

Ravon

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Wow, thanks so much Craig! It has been slowly acting up. I haven't had the amp turned on for several months but do remember it was starting to occasionaly do what I described before it totally shut down this time. Since I'll have to re-bias the amp and has been pointed out it could be other problems, I'll break down and get my guy to go over it good and fix what needs fixing. Its really good to have the information under my belt before I walk in there. I mean I trust the guy to a tee but if I just went in there not having the info I do now, he'd just rectify the immediate problem, probably with Groove Tubes because I said I wanted the Fenders in it. I want this amp preforming as good as it can and I'm willing to spend the money to do it, as long as its right. I was unsure about which tubes but now I'm not and will recommend he put the Tung-Sol Re-issues in and just retube the whole amp and just keep the Special Designs. I was going to sell it, as its almost too much amp for me now with it having the switchable 25/100 watt channel but I'll probably end up keeping the beast now. I loved it when I got and it'll give me a reason to start getting a blues thing going again 8) Thanks again ya'll!
 

capnjuan

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Hi Ravon; chances are it isn't a tube. Unless you (or somebody else) has beaten the bejabbers out of the amp, the tubes will last longer than almost everything else.

You can get the scratchy/crackly thing from dirty controls, tube sockets/pins that have corrosion on them, and from corroded contact between the shorting arm and the hot post of the input jacks. Do you have any electronic spray cleaner? Comes in two types; lubricating and non-lubricating ... Caig De-oxit Red and Blue ... lots of others. Get both types of cleaner.

Using the lubricating-type cleaner, spray some into all the pots while spinning them back and forth. If yours have a slightly greasy feel, they're dirty and after some clean-em-up, they should turn freely with a slight sense of vibrating drag. Still using lubricating type, spray some into the input jacks and shove a plug in and out and in and out several times. If you're easily bored, sing This while you work.

Using the non-lubricating type cleaner, gently rock/tug the tubes out, spray the sockets, and shove the tubes in and out and in and out ... doing so will clean both the sockets and the pins.

- Or - you can go out and dump $100 or so into a new tube set and still have dirty static if it's a maintenance problem. Then you can go get some electronic spray cleaner. Comes in two types; lubricating and non-lubricating ... Caig De-oxit Red and Blue ... lots of others ...

I don't know how technically oriented or adventurous you are; it could also be a loose connection somewhere. If you clean the amp up and the noise doesn't go away, you can take the chassis out, turn it on with the speaker connected, and take a chopstick - something that doesn't conduct electricity - and beat around on everything; resistors, capacitors, solder joints, controls ... everything. You'd be looking for anything that either improves the problem or makes it worse.

Good luck ... I love pics ... chassis shots please!
 

Ravon

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Here ya go Cap'n
001-1.jpg
 

Csquare4

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Hmmmm...Capn Juan, I would think from this description:

"when I plug my guitar in you can barely hear it other than a scratchy fuzzy noise"...

...that it absolutely could be a tube, and from my experience very likely the PI tube. In fact, I was getting ready to comment that he should probably replace the PI tube *first* before spending the money on the power tubes and the bias job from the tech. The PI tube, whether a 12AX7 or 12AT7 is cheap and essentially "plug and play". You can probably pick one up for less than $15-20 from Guitar Center. That said, depending on the age of the amp, the power tubes likely are due for replacement as well. If one of the power tubes fails, it could cause this kind of behavior as well.

On cleaning the pots, etc., --- The fact that the fuzzy noise gets louder when you turn the volume up would indicate to me that it may not be a dirty pot but further down stream. Dirty tube contacts? Maybe, but if the original tubes have never been replaced and you don't live in a hot, humid, tropical climate (Florida, ha ha!) :wink:, I would bet you a cup of joe they are are probably fine. Cleaning the pots/jacks/tube sockets is always a good idea I agree - there certainly is not harm in trying that first, its a quick, easy fix.

But, yeah, pictures would be great. And, also, do try the Tung-Sols if you have the desire. Even if it doesn't cure the immediate problem, you will still find them very nice.

Caveat - I *am not* a guitar tech, I don't make my living repairing amps, and I certainly hope that I am not leading you on a goose chase. I am just making recommendations on what I would focus on if one of my amps was exhibiting the kind of behaviour described.

Craig
 

Ravon

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Hey Craig. Must've had a simultaneous post. I posted pics on page one :)
 

Csquare4

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Ravon said:
Hey Craig. Must've had a simultaneous post. I posted pics on page one :)

I just saw that. Nice amp! Some of my favorite speakers there. I think those are the best speakers Eminence has ever made :)

It looks like you have external bias points, which if so, should be easy enough for you to bias the amp if you have a multimeter. Do you still have the owner's manual? I can't tell from the photo which of the tubes is the Phase Inverter...if you have the owner's manual it should tell you.

And please don't discount what Capn Juan suggested, he really knows his stuff. I am just coming at it from a different angle.

Craig
 

capnjuan

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Csquare4 said:
.. ...that it absolutely could be a tube ... On cleaning the pots, etc. ... Dirty tube contacts?
Hi Craig; you're right ... it might not be a maintenance thing ... it could be something else.
 

Csquare4

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capnjuan said:
Hi Craig; you're right ... it might not be a maintenance thing ... it could be something else.

Well John, between the two of us, if we were working on this amp side-by-side - I absolutely believe we could figure it out!
 
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