Guild not a top-tier guitar?

[iJamF47M]

I was reading a thread on AGF and was surprised to read some disparaging comments about Guild guitars. Basically, the point was the shoddy detail work is one reason Guild is not a top-tier make. What@#!! Luckily, there doesn't seem to be much actual support for that comment from the replies so far. And what exactly makes a "top-tier" instrument anyway? (which Guild, according to this dude, is not) Price? Reputation? Years in business? Sound?

I was just surprised to read that someone viewed Guild like that.

Here's the whole discussion.
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/foru ... p?t=174311

iJam

 

[chazmo]

Everyone's entitled to their opinions. They're even entitled to be wrong.

edit: I should note, seriously, that the style of Guild's traditional series is not going to appeal to everyone. I have noted in posts elsewhere that I wasn't exactly drawn to my F-512 because of its beauty... It's definitely grown on me, but I think people who are used to a "wood only" aesthetic are put off by the shiny headstocks and white bindings (not that Guild is the only purveyor that does that). As for shoddy quality; that's a totally different question raised by that poster. I've never seen shoddy quality on an F-512. I do recall poor placement of Guild logos and such on Tacoma instruments (not that it was shoddy).

 

[FNG]

Wonder why the guy went back to play it a second time?

 

[adorshki]

Wonder why the guy went back to play it a second time?

Maybe it was like something else I've heard it said of: "Even when it's bad it's pretty good" :lol:

 

[capnjuan]

Wonder why the guy went back to play it a second time?

Hi Effin'; you and Frosty straighten those guys out ... :evil: :wink:

 

[Scottdog]

Shhhhh........! Don't tell anyone they are great instruments.

Good on him. Comments like that help keep the pricing down.

Suddenly, one day, they will bare the desirability for just their name and then....

....WE WILL RUE THE DAY!

 

[Rich]

I recently ran into a group of mean spirited Gibson fanboys that were slamming the Guilds. I quickly gathered they had no facts to back their ill-spoken words. They were just cutting on Guild for the sake of perpetuating forum drama.

I own both Gibson and Guild, so when I say that I prefer the sub $1500 Guild D50 over my Gibson J45 rosewood, or Gibson Songmaker, I am speaking from my heart.

I also have a really good friend that left his D25 out for over a year and the top split right down the middle. He blamed the guitar's poor quality for the split. I told him he needed to humidify long ago, and he chose not to heed.....

 

[6L6]

In my mind there is only one Top Tier guitar brand and that is Collings.

Good fortune has let me play a ton of different Collings guitars since "back in the 1900's" and they are simply without equal IMHO, regardless of price.

SO...

Then you have your next tier down. I'd put high end Martins in that tier. And, I'd put high end Guilds in that tier too.

Just my 2 cents worth.

6

 

[kostask]

To many, a "top tier" guitar is what their favourite brand is. No facts or experience to back it up, that's just their mindset. To others, a top tier guitar can only be from small volume factories (Lowden, Collings, Santa Cruz, etc.), and to others it can only be from a hand builder (Sobell, Threet, Sexauer, Goodall, etc.). Don't let the opinion of the ill informed bother you.

For factory guitars, whether the Martin, Gibson, or Taylor fans care to admit it, Guilds will stand toe to toe with them in every category, and when price is factored in, Guilds are better pretty much every time. Guild did not have the disastrous quality problems of Martin and Gibson in the 1970s and 1980s, and have made guitars with every bit of the quality of those brands along with Taylor, throughout their history. Guild has not cheapened their name with formica backs and sides, stratabond necks, composition fret boards, or aluminum kids guitars with Felix the Cat graphics. Nor have they had buckets of "signature" guitars in an effort to extract even more money from the pockets of the general public. Guild has never tried to make itself into a "lifestyle choice", nor have they gone to plastic finishes (on the American Made guitars). Guilds are musical instruments, and are made that way. People may or may not like the tone or looks of Guild guitars, but the quality is every bit as good as anybody else's. Guild is one of the few guitar companies willing to experiment in an effort to improve guitar tone and projection (arched backs on D25s and the Maple guitars). Guild is the only company that has ever made "real" 12 string guitars (with the double truss rod necks), and Guild 12 strings are not over braced 6 strings, and the Acoustic Guitar magazine article notwithstanding, are the best factory 12 strings out there.

Guild is the only company to have success in all 4 types of guitars: Acoustic, Semi/Full-Hollowbody, Electric Bass, and Solid body. Martin is non-existent in electrics (guitar and bass), Gibson is non-existent in basses, and Taylor is non-existent in Hollowbodies and Basses, Fender is pretty much non-existent in Acoustics and Hollowbodies (aside from a few Benedettos, and he left them). Across all 4 categories, Guild has made consistently good, high quality products, and none of the poor quality products that sell by virtue of their name alone.

Kostas

P.S. 6L6, if you think the only top tier guitar is a Collings, you need to get out more. I have had the honor and privilege of having a Collings and a hand builder's guitar played one after the other, by somebody else, and while the Collings is an excellent guitar, the hand built both sounded somewhat better, and was built better, for less money.

 

[adorshki]

A close read of that post gives the impression the guy based his whole position on that one instrument. I have to admit if I was out shopping and came across a make I'd never seen in person and there was only one of it, it'd be pretty tempting to assume that was that maker's build standard. Still, if I really wanted to pursue the matter I might phrase my observations as questions about whether this was the build standard for that make or was that particular instrument maybe truly not up to snuff. Notice also how quickly his view was contested by other more experienced voices...

 

[tjmangum]

I stop by AGF regularly, however it appears, when it comes to brand favoritism, the "perceived" big three rule and and many are not open to the idea that there are equals out there of all kinds. Not to mention the people who are eager to bash a brand based upon one experience xx years ago.
Guild and their late sister company Tacoma offer tremedous value. My DV52 is in everyway an equal to my HD28. My D40 is better sounding to me than most D18's I've come across. And on the used market the Guilds sell for far less.
As some have said, let them continue to ignore and "dis" Guilds and we'll keep the secret right here amongst ourselves to enjoy.
tj

 

[taabru45]

I wonder hhat he sees when he looks in the mirror... :lol: :lol: Steffan

 

[dreadnut]

I've never claimed Guild is the best guitar made (but they just might be ) Unfortunately, Fender has added to the negative perception by jerking them around to four different manufacturing facilities in 6 years, by selling a bunch of factory seconds, and by tossing the Chinese-made guitars into the mix without changing the headstock logo.

I've always claimed that Guilds were the best value, but now that they're priced closer to Martins and Taylors, Fender is really going to have to work on convincing buyers of this. It sure looks like they're ready to take on the competition based on what we see coming out of Connecticut.

I must admit, I also think that Collings are a step up from all three of the aforementioned Guitars, and they are priced accordingly. I've played a bunch of them at Elderly over the years and they are exquisitely built guitars that really do sound great, but I can't afford one. However, when I played a Tacoma D-50 and a Colliings D-3 side-by-side, they both sounded great, I'd have to give the edge to the Guild because it was $2,000 less than the Collings ($1,500 vs. $3,500.)

Gibsons, IMHO, don't even belong in the same category, they've been putting out junk for the last several years based on the ones I've seen and played. Yes, there were some nice ones, in fact a plain old "Working Man's J-45" that I played almost enticed me to buy it, but I think it was new old stock. Most I've observed have had poor detail work and/or just plain didn't sound too good, electrics included.

Interestingly, I played a gig with my friend on Saturday, he has an 800-series Taylor. I was all alone in the room with both my DV-52 and the Taylor, so I decided to do a sound comparison. Now the Taylor had a nice ring to it, very trebly and crisp. However, my DV-52 boomed it right out of the water. I'd sure hate to try keeping up with my bluegrass band with that Taylor. Oh and by the way, he has a top crack (actually a separation in the top center seam) that Taylor has already fixed once and now refuses to fix again, claiming it must have been caused by him not humidifying it properly, etc. Gotta hate that when you spend almost $3,000 on a guitar.

Gotta love the Martins. In my opinion, they've been a consistently good guitar, but always out of my price range, although they've done some innovative things to put out some nice moderately priced guitars lately.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but that's how I see it.

But if you want the best value of all, look for a vintage DV-52, many still available for under $1,000 I'd love to own some Martins and Collings too, but it would only be a luxury. Since I found my DV-52, I don't need any other guitars.

 

[fronobulax]

I was reading a thread on AGF and was surprised to read some disparaging comments about Guild guitars

Opinions are like [insert body part here]. Everyone has one and they all stink.

That said, I now give you the benefit of my opinion.

People often make statements based upon their peculiar definition of things. I could define "top tier" as being exclusive, luxury or expensive depending upon what I wanted to include and exclude. It's easy to set up a strawman and demolish it.

Second, I remain convinced that generalizations about Guilds are by nature vague or incorrect. The company has 50+ years of making acoustic guitars. They have had several factories and made, and discontinued, several product lines. This, in my opinion, is why threads trying to define "what makes a Guild a Guild" are doomed to plow the same ground and reach no consensus.

All that said, my experience has been that people who have enough experience with Guilds to have an educated opinion tend to place Guild in the "value" category. "Twice the guitar at half the price" may not literally be true but it certainly captures the prevailing attitude. Without defining the terms, people who want the ego boost associated with "top tier" products generally are not concerned with cost and hence value.

 

[Scottdog]

I wonder hhat he sees when he looks in the mirror... :lol: :lol: Steffan

Apparently something different every time you goes back.

 

[drive-south]

If top-tier is determined by price, then Guild is probably not a contendor. Martin has custom guitars that go all the way to $50k. In the realm of custom builders there are people like Kevin Ryan selling guitars for $15-$20k or more. That's a dubious distinction anyways. Who is interested in $20k guitars anyways? Cerainly not me.

When a person spends $15K on a guitar, they have to pooh pooh lower priced guitars in order to justify their ridiculous purchase. Just ignore all the nonsense and play your' guitar.

drive-south

 

[Ridgemont]

A classic case of someone talking out the wrong end???? I say this because it is very difficult to draw any conclusions from a sample population of one.

Interesting thread over on AGF, and by the looks of it, he doesn't have very much support. Interesting thread here in that it is obviously exposing all of our biases. I have to say that I have never played a bad sounding American Guild. As far as appointment go, I could care less about abalone or inlay on the bridge. To me, it is about how the guitar sounds and plays that is most important. Of course, this is my personal opinion and everybody else most likely has something different to say. I always viewed Guild maintaining a more vintage vibe, which would include some of the old appointments, so simple appointments makes sense by this standard. It is sometimes hard to compare vintage appointments on a "high end" Guild to that of a "high end" Taylor that looks like a piece of jewelry (or something in the Martin 42 series). If you are going to look for a specific instrument (in this case a new 12-string) then several factors should be considered such as looks, playability, durability, company reputation, warranty, resale value and brand reputation among other manufacturers... Yes Takamine has been ripping off major American guitars for a while now, so I will not get into that, but Martin? Martin copying the Guild 12 design? I do think that says quite a bit. There is a reason why they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. A little visual sparkle (if this is important to you) should be taken into account, but I would find that hard to see that as a deal breaker.

I would agree that Fender has tarnished our Guild standards here on this Guild elite forum, but I often question if the rest of the world views it that way. Take the GAD line for example. The GAD market is set mainly for a sub $1000.00 guitar (for the most part). Of course a GAD 30 is not to compete with an F30 in terms of build quality or materials or price. It is like comparing a Honda to a BMW. But I have to say that most of the bad things I have heard about the GADs is here on this forum. Of the store owners and workers, other forums I have visited and harmony central reviews, the GAD line is pretty well respected. I see this as a good thing in that it helps in name recognition. I see many GADs on youtube which helps in the spreading of the Guild name (this is how I found out about Guild). The GADs are meant to compete with the low end Martins and Taylors and some of the Gibsons that come out of Canada. I have played them all, and would choose a GAD in a heartbeat. The low end guitars from some of these other companies look and sound like junk, but I have played some really nice GADs.


Oh and I don't know what a top tier guitar company is either. I guess you could check to see what all those famous musicians play.....(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Guitar_Company)

 

[Ross]

The GADs are meant to compete with the low end Martins and Taylors and some of the Gibsons that come out of Canada.

Gibson made their low-end Songmaker line in Canada, but they no longer make guitars in Canada. The factory closed in '09.

 

[SuperSonic]

Tone is all I have to say. I spent three full days over the Christmas break taking my son around South Florida guitar shopping. We played everything imaginable from Taylors to Blueberries and everything in between. We could not find anything we would consider other than a Guild D55. It just so happens that in our humble opinion it is one of the most beautiful guitars around also. We played many nice guitars but the Guild stood out. It is hard to explain the difference between a perfectly machined binding and a perfectly handmade one if you don't see it. We had to send the used one we bought back because of shipping issues but are waiting on its new CT replacement. The used D55 was the only guitar he sat and played for 1.5 hours straight.

 

[Aerie]

I have always considered Guild an equal to Gibson and Martin. It's almost like these are the "trinity". When it comes to high-end hardwood acoustic guitars there are multitudes of "micro-brews" out there such as Santa Cruz, Collings, &etc. that produce very fine instruments. When it comes time to describe the sound produced by these guitars, however, folks usually use Martin, Gibson, and Guild as the standards. People usually compare Taylors and Larivees to Martins, for example. Gibsons have their own unique "jingle jangle" sound. People go to Gibson if they're looking for a Beatles sound. Guilds have a very unique sound often described as bold, balanced, "something between Martin and Gibson".