Guild - Gibby comparision

[evenkeel]

A good friend just bought a very nice Gibson SJN, vintage 1974. This is a square shoulder, spruce mahogany dread. We thought it would interesting to do a side by side comparision with my D35, 1975 vintage.

Before even playing you notice how much lighter the Gibby is. Can't give you a number, but the D35 is noticeably heavier. The neck on the Guild is a bit chunkier.

The tonal difference was dramatic. My D35 had more volume with greater oomph in the mid and lower registers and a woodier tone. Very warm sound. The Gibson, much more high end sparkle, a brighter, crisper tone. Terrific sustain and a more agressive bite to the tone. A caveat is strings. The Gibby had new phosphur bronze 10's. My Guild has phosphur bronze 12's that have been on a month or so. Some of the volume difference may come from the strings alone, but my guess is not all.

So, did a like the Guild better? Short answer is yes, but it's more of an apples and oranges thing. Both guitars are terrific. For my more folk oriented style of play the Guild is a great fit. My friend has a more muscular, blues oriented style and in his hands the Gibby sounds great.

 

[steverok]

Love Gibsons, have three of them. Guild and Gibson do it for me. An example or two of each, including at least one Guild 12-er, and there is really no need for anything else.

 

[killdeer43]

Whenever my #1 cousin and I get together (which is never often enough), it's always his 70's J50 and my '89 D50. I always warn him ahead of time to put on new strings for the occasion and he does. We both use medium PBs.

As Keel alluded, the J50 is definitely lighter and the fingerboard just feels less substantial, as well. As far as volume and tone, there's just no comparison to my ears. What I think plays into the equation more often than not, is what Keel said about the individual playing style. And then, some people can make even mediocre guitars sing, while others make them sound....mediocre.

I could go on specualting about this and that but the bottom line is, I just like my Guild better than his Gibson. Sorry, Russell, you're still my favorite cousin and I still love you, but you need to get yourself Guilded! But, if your Gibson works for you, I'm happy.

**I got rid of my J45 and saw the Guilded light years ago!

Apples, oranges....I like 'em both,
Joe

 

[bluesypicky]

Love Gibsons, have three of them. Guild and Gibson do it for me. An example or two of each, including at least one Guild 12-er, and there is really no need for anything else.

What steverok said....... Right on Buddy!

 

[GardMan]

Hey Evenkeel,
Interesting thast you remarked on the weight of your D-35 relative to the Gibson. There have been lots of comments on Guilds being heavier ("overbuilt") than other makes, so I weighed all my Guilds on the wife's kitchen scale a couple months back. My '72 D-35 is the lightest of my Guilds, coming in at under 4.5 lbs. My '71 D-44 is only a smidge heavier. The Martins I have played have never felt appreciably lighter than my D-35, and it's hard for me to conceive of a full-sized dread being much lighter (under 4 lbs)... but I haven't played a lot of others, and no Gibsons.

The rest of my Guild dreads all top 5 lbs, and a couple are just a hair under 6 lbs (the D-46 is the heaviest at 5 lbs 15 oz... it, the D-55, and D-50, all top 5.75 lbs). My wife had a '78 D-35... I never weighed it, but I would bet it was in the 5.5-6 lb range. The two D-35s ('72 and '78) also sounded much different, with the '78 having much more emphasis on the mids.

The differences have lead me to believe that there was a change in the way Guild built/braced its dreads in the early '70s, leading to much heavier instruments... and the resulting comments that Guild were/are "overbuilt" by some players. On the otherhand, the weight certainly doesn't hamper the tone/projection of my three heaviest (my D-46, D-50, and D-55)!
Dave

 

[gretschbigsby]

I love Guilds, Gibsons and Martins.

The 70's were some very dark times for Gibson acoustics-- there are some good examples, but they are like needles in the haystack. To really A/B them, you'd need one from the 60's or earlier, or something from the Bozeman factory.

I agree with those who think that the Guild tone falls in between Gibson and Martin.

Bob

 

[6L6]

Frankly, I wouldn't soil my Guild case with a Gibson acoustic (electrics are another story).

I find Gibby acoustics to be generally DEAD sounding instruments when put against Guild, Collings, Martin, and other such instruments.

Sorry.

6

No Gibby Acoustics
2006 ES-335DT... GREAT!!!!

 

[Dr. Spivey]

I like Gibsons, it seems they are a love or hate kind of deal for most folks. They have definitely had some quality issues over the years, but I think the problems with the Bozeman guitars are greatly exaggerated on the internet. They do turn out some real duds there, however. They also are reluctant to deal with warranty claims, but owners who take a hard line get taken care of.

To me Guild, Martin, and Gibson are all good, just different. I like Guild and Gibson dreads and jumbos, Martin OOO/OMs. There are lots of other great guitars out there, it's those three that have the sound I like, and the most experience with.

I will get me a Gibson J45 or Southern Jumbo some day soon, but probably won't sell a Guild to do it.

 

[Frosty]

I play acoustic guitar. I used to have strong feeling against Gibson. I used to say "I've never played a Gibson guitar that sounded good". I ignored the brand for decades until someone put a 1991 Bozeman J-45 in my hands. The world changed in that instant - this was a very good guitar, the rival of slope-shouldered clones by SGCG, Collings, etc that cost four times a much.

Short story shorter... Gibson did have a not-so-great period under Norlin's leadership. Turns out, all the acoustics I had played when I made my original opinion were from that period.

I now have a '61 J-50 that I dearly love. Does it sound like a Guild? Nope. Does it sound like James Taylor's guitar on Sweet Baby James? You bet!

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Many Gibson guitars have a "Gibson" sound.
It isn't a sound that appeals to me.
I have played some Gibson Guitars that were impressive though.
Most J-200's are to my liking.
I think I like the J-200's because they have more of a Martinish sound to them.

I do like the sound of Gibson Guitars on recordings like The Everly Brothers but not enough to own one.

To me, and I will get some responses for this, my Guild D-55 sounds somewhere in between a Martin and a Gibson.
The early recordings of John Denver, when he played Guilds has this sound.
I love it when I play his songs,
If I play some Bluegrass songs, my Martin has more of the sound that I'm wanting.
Isn't it nice to be able to have more than 1 guitar!

 

[Paddlefoot]

The weight thing is interesting but you have to remember that wood can vary quite alot. Just as an example; I use to shoot service rifle matches with the old M-1 Garand and M-1a/M-14. Because the rules limit what changes can be made to the rifles we always tried to get as much weight into the gun as we could by choosing the most dense piece of black walnut we could find. Two identical stocks could easily have a quarter pound difference in weight just because of this density. My personal opinion about the heft of Guilds is that the wood used in the old Westerly Guilds was excellent quality and possibly selected for it's density after seasoning. If I remember my Guild history correctly the Westerly crew and factory were a furniture operation prior to Guilds purchase of the plant. If you have instrument builders overseeing furniture builders you probably are not going to have a problem getting them to recognize properly seasoned wood of the proper density.

 

[Frosty]

My personal opinion about the heft of Guilds is that the wood used in the old Westerly Guilds was excellent quality and possibly selected for it's density after seasoning.

Could be. But there's also just a lot of it. Compare the size of the neck block on a Guild with that of a lighter weight guitar, for example.

Not exactly sure what "overbuilt" means, but I feel it is meant to be derisive by those who use it. I could be wrong.

The heaviest acoustic guitar I own is the Gruhn/Walker D-60. The tone of this guitar is sublime and it seems reasonable that the construction and material contribute to the sound I hear. I have never heard such a tone from an "underbuilt" Martin or Gibson. :wink:

 

[Paddlefoot]

Frosty has a great point about small variations in the size of some components. And of course some designs change over time for good reasons. Some builders/manufactureres are now using maple or birch plywood in the tailblocks of their guitars. Not because they want to be cheap or cut corners but because so many acoustics are getting endpin jacks mounted in them that they were starting to see tailblock splitting on the grain if the jack/pin takes a hit. The ply stands up to this much better. Does it change the sound? Maybe, but how good does a broken guitar sound?

 

[marcellis]

I remember playing a J40 or J45 in an Atlanta recording studio
about 20 years ago. It's still the sweetest-sounding guitar
I've ever played. Dead strings -- yet the sound was perfect.
It was a very sweet, compressed sound. Not big -- but warm
and very sweet.

Unfortunately, every Gibson I've played since then has
been a real dud. I like the necks. I like the looks. But they all
sounded like plywood.

I always wanted to own a really great-sounding Gibson.

 

[eastcoastbuzz]

I would put my '54 Southern Jumbo up against just about anything. It is light, loud and has that classic chunky sound. As far as guitars I own, the F30R is a close second. For what it's worth I've played many Gibsons from the 90's and 2000's that just sounded like crap. Just my opinion.

 

[Frosty]

I think I may have referenced this before, pointing out how subjective this all is.

A few years ago, in a guitar shop with a picking buddy, we were trying out some old guitars. My friend picked up a beat old Gibson short scale sloped dread, placed it in his lap and strummed a few chords. He then stood up and handed me the guitar saying "this instrument embodies everything I despise about Gibson guitars. Here, you're gonna love it!".

True story.

 

[c70man]

A good friend just bought a very nice Gibson SJN, vintage 1974. This is a square shoulder, spruce mahogany dread. We thought it would interesting to do a side by side comparision with my D35, 1975 vintage.

Before even playing you notice how much lighter the Gibby is. Can't give you a number, but the D35 is noticeably heavier. The neck on the Guild is a bit chunkier.

The tonal difference was dramatic. My D35 had more volume with greater oomph in the mid and lower registers and a woodier tone. Very warm sound. The Gibson, much more high end sparkle, a brighter, crisper tone. Terrific sustain and a more agressive bite to the tone. A caveat is strings. The Gibby had new phosphur bronze 10's. My Guild has phosphur bronze 12's that have been on a month or so. Some of the volume difference may come from the strings alone, but my guess is not all.

So, did a like the Guild better? Short answer is yes, but it's more of an apples and oranges thing. Both guitars are terrific. For my more folk oriented style of play the Guild is a great fit. My friend has a more muscular, blues oriented style and in his hands the Gibby sounds great.

I'm surprised the neck on your D35 is chunkier than the Gibson. I played a 70's D35 recently and the SJ's I have played, as I remember it, were considerably larger and more rounded. It sounds like the SJ you played has more of a Songwriter neck. The lightness doesn't surprise me a whole lot. All my Guilds are tanks.

The D35 to me is all Guild. Sounds more to me like a D25 than a D40, though I prefer the sound of a D40.

The Gibsons SJ I play is a 55...it is no comparison to the square shouldered...in fact its maybe the best sounding dred I ever played. Don't get me wrong, I love the Guild, I love how bright they are compared to most other guitars, I love the narrow nut too, but I think the SJ is quite a step up in guitar from a D35.

 

[bluesypicky]

I think I may have referenced this before, pointing out how subjective this all is.

A few years ago, in a guitar shop with a picking buddy, we were trying out some old guitars. My friend picked up a beat old Gibson short scale sloped dread, placed it in his lap and strummed a few chords. He then stood up and handed me the guitar saying "this instrument embodies everything I despise about Gibson guitars. Here, you're gonna love it!".

True story.

Well done again Frosty!
In addition to being funny, it sums up this whole "non debate"...
There are more than enough guitars out there to make everybody happy, but for some reason, one cannot escape the temptation (no offense to our good fellow LTG'er evenkeel ) to fall into this "manufacturer urinating contest" :lol:
The one thing I can safely assert here is this: Everyone of us here on LTG has Guild at the top of their list, and whether or not it shares this spot with another manufacturer name is fine by me.... :wink: :mrgreen:

 

[mgod]

I've got a 57 Country-Western and a 71 F-50. These are very different guitars and they play very differently, but sonically they're very much in the same family, which is why I like them both. But the Gibson seems like its about half the weight of the Guild. The Guild is just massive. As far as I know, don't recall if I heard this from Hans or I picked it up somewhere else, maybe from Chris Fleming who ran Guild for a bit at Fender, in 71 Guild increased the thickness of the wood on the whole line. This is certainly true of Starfires. After playing the F-50 for a bit, you go to the C-W and it almost floats out of your hands.

I love both guitars and have always preferred them to Martins. But a couple weeks ago a friend showed up here with a very heavily repaired 38 0021 and I'd sell both to get it from him. Maybe my favorite acoustic ever.

DS

 

[evenkeel]

I'm surprised the neck on your D35 is chunkier than the Gibson. I played a 70's D35 recently and the SJ's I have played, as I remember it, were considerably larger and more rounded. It sounds like the SJ you played has more of a Songwriter neck.

The neck shape was a surprise to me also. It was an interesting excercise if you will. A lesson in "horses for courses".

I hope no one thought I was "anti Gibson". Not at all my intent. I love the J45, slope shoulder, sunburst. The look and the sound. But I've also played some that just did not thrill me. Just a few days ago I spotted a new one in a Best Buy. I was in for a router but (of course) have to check out the acoustic room. Sale price of $1,400 and I'm thinking "this might be tempting". Dull, muffled tone. No sparkle at all. In the same room a Epi Masterbilt, slope shoulder, spruce/mahogany. Beautiful, bright, warm, bold sound.

I suspect if we lined up a bunch of d35's, from the same or different years we'd fine some that were great, some not so much.