F50R What you know, whom you know and the way you use it

Spectrum13

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I'm thinking this might be a usefull thead to posted here rather than the repair section. Back in March 1975 I purchased what I believed to be the best Jumbo made in the USA. Before the internet all I knew about flat tops was Kalamazoo could not make anything like they did before 1968 and Martins were a hit or miss. I went to high school in Hoboken and the old factory was on the same corner as my bus stop plus I knew they made great guitars. My F50R smelled great, played great and sounded great from day one. While my friends would always compaired it to Martins and Gibsons which at the time were the benchmark was ?, but I was cool with it, I loved my guitar. Flash foward 34 years. It matured into something like a Steinway, a super loud, beautiful and even toned jumbo in a different class than your Norlin era Gibsons or even your "normal" Martins. The top stayed flat, the bridge steadfast but the pickguard needed to be removed and reglued due to shrinking and years began to pass.

Now we come to my "discovery" of this forum and the reason for this post. First, Hans was able to send me a replacement TRC. Very cool, as the original cracked. However the major issue was the neck set. I was down to using 10's rather than 13's and delaying major surgery when someone mentioned, lifetime warranty. Why not take a shot? I called Fender service but they were less than eager to call a reset after 34 years a "defect". I was refered to the list of local authorised repair contractors and already knew and used the services of Mark Biniasz at "the Guitar Bar" in Marietta Georgia. While Mark was less than optomistic on the warranty, I left him my Guild as well as an Archtop. Also mention here was the Kent Armstrong's Johnny Smith floaters were either made in the USA or Korea with a a big difference between the two so I asked Mark do the switch. I thought my 903C sounded tinny. You people were right on, it's night and day! A big fat tone from that little humbucker, but back to the F50.
After speaking with Fender, Mark had to certify, I was the original owner (keep your receipts), the guitar was not abused (taken very good care of) and supply a ton of photos inside and out then await their decision. Mark said when Fender purchased Guild they agreed to warranty back to 1980 but there was some room for exceptions. So the good news is... they agreed to do the repair, sent Mark the paperwork and my F50's going to Nashville!

If you guys are interested, I will post the "how long it took and how it came out" followup. Thanks for restoring my faith in Guild and their lifetime warranty. I had no idea this was a option until I dropped into this forum.
 

fronobulax

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That is pretty neat. Considering all the bad things we say about FMIC and its stewardship of Guild, this has to go into the plus column, for sure.

Too bad the bar gets raised at 1980 since that is after my original purchase :)
 

Dr. Spivey

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That's great news Spec. Please do keep us up to date on this story. Guilds are great guitars, and LTG is a great forum.
 

wright1

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Wow,what a result.My impression is that it is like drawing teeth to get FMIC to agree to anything let alone a repair to a instrument made so long ago. It is a testament to you that the guitar is in such good condition with so much mileage on the clock. Still 'Lifetime Warranty' should mean that but a neck reset is usually fair wear and tear after all that time. Hopefully the luthiers at Fender will be well versed with instruments from this era and be extra careful removing the neck. Guilds seem to frighten some luthiers because the joints have variations in them unlike Martins which are built so methodically.Your guitar should come back playing better than ever.
013" strings are pretty heavy. Did you use them for a long time before the action became difficult?
Do you have any before pics you could post when it comes back to post with the after pics?
All the best, Steve.
 

Spectrum13

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Thanks for your reply!
Again it comes down to life skills. Effectively using available information to acheive a desired result. If it's worth a try, trust good people will do the right thing and follow through with reason and leave the emotion and crazy at home. I do baby my guitars. The only playing wear was to the sound hole from the pic and it stayed in the case unless played. She came with Guild Medium 450 strings so I figured keep the same 13s as it matures and leave the string wrapper in the case so you remember the gage and keep the same pull.
I would trust the custom shop in Nashville will have some of the best of the best building and repairing instruments. While I have photos, I have not figured how to post on LTG yet.
 

brian f

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post pics to a file share like photobucket and link to that. that's what I do

Would really like to see the guitar.
 

chazmo

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Spectrum,

Many of us were unaware there even was a Custom Shop still in Nashville. I don't think they build any Guilds there anymore, but I'm glad they take service. It's terrific they're honoring your warrantee.

I'm a little confused... Has the work already been done, or are you planning to have it done?

Indeedy, we'd love to see some pictures.

As an owner of a 1971 (early Westerly) and soon-to-arrive 1967 (Hoboken) I'm glad to hear your story. Best wishes! I'll post a "twin" picture of mine when the '67 arrives and I've had a chance to do some comparos. Must've been neat being near the Hoboken facility; did you ever get a tour? The original owner of my '67 told me that it wasn't much of a "factory." A small "shop" would be more akin to reality. :)
 

Spectrum13

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Chazmo,

It should be shipped to the custom shop this week! Did not play much for about 20 years but two years ago I had a desire to get a Jazz box then I discovered websites & forums and...the rest is history. Never knew about neck sets, set ups and the like. Did not know Guild was owned by Fender. Everything was a mystery back in the day.

Guild was on the second floor of a old factory across from the Railroad Express terminal on Observer Highway. I went up there once, but as a 15 year old, no tour. When the windows were open, I could see somebody working at a bench. Sorry I don't have anything more interesting than that.
 

chazmo

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Spectrum13 said:
Chazmo,

It should be shipped to the custom shop this week! Did not play much for about 20 years but two years ago I had a desire to get a Jazz box then I discovered websites & forums and...the rest is history. Never knew about neck sets, set ups and the like. Did not know Guild was owned by Fender. Everything was a mystery back in the day.

Guild was on the second floor of a old factory across from the Railroad Express terminal on Observer Highway. I went up there once, but as a 15 year old, no tour. When the windows were open, I could see somebody working at a bench. Sorry I don't have anything more interesting than that.

:) Well, that's plenty interesting! :)

It's great that there's so much to learn about these things, isn't it? I've learned a ton myself in the past few years, mostly due to the boards on the web. Best wishes, and welcome aboard.
 

West R Lee

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Yes Spec, I'd be very interested in how she comes out....along with some pictures. Thanks for posting.

West
 

Spectrum13

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F50R Part II

Report from the Custom Shop in Nashville

Ok, first I asked Mark from "the Guitar Bar" local authorized Guild service guy, if he could post some of the photos he was asked to send Guild before they accepted the repair. You have asked for some porn.

Guild (fender) will warranty the neck reset but listed some other work needed to either preform the reset and or "make it a brand new 34 year old guitar".

#1 Refret and new nut $280
The frets were leveled twice in 34 years and has wear especially on the first two frets.

Makes sense to me and it's priced right, I know they need to remove some frets to steam off the neck.

#2 Replace the neck binding $120

In 34 years the binding has shrunk and there are some cracks. It's a cosmetic and or resale issue but after seeing a recent LTG post of what is involved, it appears to be a great price and the right time to get the work done. Ok up to $400.

#3 Binding around the waist is lifting. I never noticed that however, I have to trust these guys know what they are doing and see thing I don't. Thats $80

#4 Bridge (replace) and other small issues. $80.
Never had a problem with the bridge. However as in #3, I never looked at it from the inside and also believe they know more about this than I would.

So what is the problem? $560 to rebuild as new, a Guitar that cost $570 with case, 34 years ago.
#1 Already spent my 2009 budget on a custom Heritage now in production.
#2 I play 99% electric jazz, blues and rock so I only take the F50R out once every couple of weeks to show some love and get the top moving. So I would have it, just to have it. If it came back as a archtop, it would be in the rotation.

LTG guys, what do you think?
 

cjd-player

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Spectrum13 said:
Flash foward 34 years. It matured into something like a Steinway, a super loud, beautiful and even toned jumbo in a different class than your Norlin era Gibsons or even your "normal" Martins.

If it is such a super sounding guitar, the repairs are definitely worth it. If you're not going to play it, it will sell for much more than the cost of the repairs.

To me, the scariest thing about buying a used Guild is the condition of the neck angle and the possible need for a reset. A neck reset done by the Custom Shop would be a selling asset in my opinion; just make sure you keep documentation of the repair work.
 

GardMan

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Spectrum13 said:
So what is the problem? $560 to rebuild as new, a Guitar that cost $570 with case, 34 years ago... ... LTG guys, what do you think?
You have had her for 34 years. The $560 you were quoted isn't that much more than you would pay for a neck reset alone, anywhere else. She'll come home as good as new. She would be probably worth close to $2,000 when repaired. To me, it's a no brainer... if you can find the cash, send her to Nashville for a makeover!
Dave
 

Taylor Martin Guild

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You will be in it for a total of $1130.00
That's the cost new and the repairs.
DO IT!!!

If you do and then want to sell it.
Please list it here first!!!!!
 

Spectrum13

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You guys leave me no choice.

After speaking with my world famous "in Atlanta" repair guy he added several points.

#1 With the neck off you can replace the binding much easier. Imagine working on the part around the sound hole.
#2 When the reset is done and the angle of the neck is corrected... you have got to redo the bridge to get the intonation and height and spacing correct.
#3 Get the binding around the belly done as they will shoot a layer of finish over the whole guitar and all the binding will match the aged color and blend into the original finish. After all it will be buffed and look like a brand new instrument.
#4 If something comes out not quite right, they would fix it. Plus the documention and original receipt would be a big plus.
 

gilded

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Spec,

I wrote most of this before your last post, so I'll just highlight the response to your 'Atlanta Guy' in blue:
I agree with most of the things your 'Atlanta guy' says, with the exception of the necessity of taking the bridge off to get the height and intonation correct. Taking it off makes it easier for them to be less careful, but I've never seen a good repairman take off a bridge that didn't need coming off, just to make a neck set easier.


I'd say do it, but I'd like to know how they plan to fix the waist binding (splice it, heat it, etc.)? As well, If the neck binding is bad and the body binding is starting to shrink, why isn't that a warranty repair to the careful original owner?? Did you do something to violate the warranty for binding, but at the same time, not violate the warranty for neck set problems?? I bet not!!

I mention this because, if the binding is shrinking on the body, it too will go to pieces over the next 10 years. I base this on the fact that Guild (like Gretsch and the 'other' NY companies Epi & D'Angelico) used a type of binding that is known to harden and crack. Maybe FMIC would go broke replacing all of the cracked up binding on old guitars, but just for grins, why don't you see if they'd re-do all of the binding and 'split the difference with you'! Then you'd have an a '74 F50R that would be good for the next 50 years!!

I'd also like to know what they think is wrong with the bridge? Was it shaved down once or twice over the years? Is it cracked between the pins, at the saddle??

It doesn't hurt to ask these things and you might be surprised at the answer you get...
 

Taylor Martin Guild

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I have a friend that took a Taylor in for warranty repair of a binding issue.
It was fully covered.
I would think that the body binding on your Guild should also be covered.
 
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