D40 Trad. vs D40 Standard vs GAD40ce

[Bill Ashton]

Last night at Union Music, I had a few minutes to compare these dreads...that is after we cleaned up after a ridiculously happy Chazmo... :lol:

D40 Traditional: The standard against which all others are judged? Well...low boomy bass (that vibrates your chest when you play her), fine, fine workmanship, perhaps a slightly depressed midrange though I could not tell that until I played other guitars. Perhaps a bit too subdued cosmetically with the tortise binding. Nice overlay on the peghead. Felt a bit "tight," but nothing like my D55 did when new, and certainly nothing a hour with a luthier couldn't tame. But sadly, unexceptional. Not sure who would win in a shootout with a Martin D18 (if thats the similar guitar) or a Taylor.

D40 Standard: A real looker. Supposed to be a notch down from the D40 Trad. at $300 less as tagged. Hmmm. Exquisite bookmatched mahogany back, never seen such fine looking wood of this species, stained just right, not too dark, not too light. Felt lightweight for what it was. Slightly different neck profile from the D40, very subtle but I think a tad chunkier. Played well, didn't have the "tight" feel of the Traditional. Much brighter, but better balanced, thats the thing that stands out. Had a particular "zing" to the timbre of the sound that I think may be the new Daddario strings. No rumble in the chest, but someone turned up the midrange control...is this the difference between Red Spruce and Sitka?...make me a Sitka man Very, very resonant. Harmonics JUMP out of this guitar with no effort. Very long sustain to the notes. I would like to try this guitar with some JP or GHS Bluegrass gauged strings, I'll bet THAT would rumble your chest.

Beautiful, nice playing, well balanced tone...there, coulda said a paragraph in a few words...

GAD-40ce: Stumbled upon this hanging on the wall, electro-acoustic dread with a cutaway, not something I would buy but had to try her out. Nicely made, but a really thick, gloppy finish...sorta like the 70's Fender "thick skin." Not poorly executed, but thick. Nice mahognay back, but sorta "striped," wonder what species it is? Slimmer neck profile, almost like a Fender "C," but not quite as skinny...similar to my GAD30PCE. Just a nice sounding guitar. Played easy, sounded nice and well balanced, no chest rumble but clear and strong. At $900 less as tagged from the Standard, this is the Guild you want to buy for your teenager...or maybe yourself. Not spectacular but just really good.

Sidebar...had a new DV6 there as well. So OK, what the hell, might as well try that...hard for me to get past the satin finish, not badly done but I just don't care for it. Actually sounded really nice, much better than when I tried one a year ago (don't know what manufacture location that one was from) Nice looking Rosewood, put some gloss on this puppy, will you?
Would place the sound between the GAD and the Standard, maybe closer to or the same as the GAD. But tagged at $60 cheaper. If you can get past the satin finish, we have a winner?

My prediction for the future...the D40 Standard will become THE standard...the D40 Traditional will fade away or become a GSR of some sort. The GAD - "Tex Mex" - Standard lines will carry the Guild name as an industry price leader and "bang for the buck." Just put the same finish on the DV4 and 6 that you do on the Standard (new process Nitro) and then place the price point between the GAD and the Standard. Of course, that won't make them a "Collings," but then...and I say this very sadly, neither will the D40 Traditional...

Guild, are you listening???

 

[chazmo]

Now, now... I did *not* mess up the store.

It's too bad you didn't have a DV-4 to compare as well, Bill. Of the two (-6 vs. -4), the -4 was the standout to me.

 

[Ridgemont]

Great review, thanks. I can't wait to try out a STD. Maybe I will stop by my guild dealer to check one out. It seems they are hoarding them over there.

 

[Bill Ashton]

...and we must not allow anyone to hoard out precious Standard Series, right Chaz? :lol: :lol: :twisted:

Really Ridge, I would like to hear a counterpoint to my ramblings, for I am sensitive that I seem to have dissed the D40 Traditional. And compare them to the GAD...go on, stifle your gag reflex :shock: and try them...the Standard I think will ultimately come out the winner, but other than the finishes it is hard to discredit either the GAD line or the new DV's...

 

[jcwu]

I can't wait to try out a STD.

Personally, I've been trying to avoid STDs all my life...

 

[Bill Ashton]

I was wondering how long it would take...1 hour, 7 minutes, youse guys are slipping :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Something that has never made sense to me is the referral to inanimate objects as "he" or mostly "she". I just don't get this! Where does it come from?

I just call my car, boat or guitars "it"! Not this; "she" handles great or; I tried "her" out crap! It totally baffles me! If somebody can supply me with a logical reason I might rethink it, but otherwise, and until then, it will continue to annoy me to no end!

<rant over>

 

[Bill Ashton]

...sorry...

 

[cjd-player]

Something that has never made sense to me is the referral to inanimate objects as "he" or mostly "she". I just don't get this! Where does it come from? ...

Some other languages, such as French, do "genderize" inanimate objects making some masculine and some feminine. Perhaps there was some carry over from that practice in our ancestors learning English when they came here. Although by now it would all be discombobulated anyway. But at least there is some precedent for the practice.

But in the end, you may stay annoyed.
It's o.k. with us. :mrgreen:

 

[adorshki]

Something that has never made sense to me is the referral to inanimate objects as "he" or mostly "she". I just don't get this! Where does it come from?
<rant over>

It's called anthropomorphism. Deal with it. :lol:

 

[wontox]

l Standard (new process Nitro)

Hi Bill, great review on the D 40's and GAD. My only Guild is an '70 D 40, and I think you described the sound well. The GADs I've played at Charlies Music here sound pretty darn good, a bit tinkly in a good way, but don't have the depth and oomph of my slightly battered and twice refinished old Guild.

I just contacted Chazmo regarding MA residency/visiting. We're as far apart as one can get in this elongated state. I guess you're an MA guy too. I'm on the Cape. Please send a PM if you ever get out this way.

What is the 'new process nitro'? I have a couple of older (sixties) non-Guilds with nitro, and other than age cracks, it's a very durable finish compared to a newish nitro RK guitar I have which chips or whitens at the drop of a capo....I either need to clear the area of any hard objects before de-casing the RK or just resign to having it eventually look like Willie Nelson's guitar. Are the new nitro Guild finishes more durable? I really dislike having a guitar that needs extreme babying.

Wontox

 

[yettoblaster]

...the referral to inanimate objects as "he" or mostly "she". I just don't get this! Where does it come from? ...

It comes from the "return to the womb" where things were cozy and safe - thing.

When tossed upon a rough sea, sailors get attached to calling their ship (a harbor away from home and hearth) "She," or "her."

Dreadnoughts are the battleships of guitardom.

Plus if your ship sinks, a dread could become your "she," though one on each foot would be better. :mrgreen:

 

[Bill Ashton]

Dear Wontox,

While I sort of understand what the new process is, for I was hovering during the converation at the "after action conference/picnic," Chaz is the man to explain it for I think he soaked it all up...Frank U. the plant manager was out for his bike workout and stopped by for a few minutes.

Frank explained that the Traditional series guitars take a lot of work following finish, I guess due to the way the coating cures. The Standard series, while having a true nitrocellulose finish, has a different "filler" or first coat that makes all the after work unnecessary.

Sidebar: Remember that big explosion in Danvers several Thanksgiving Eve's ago? That plant was producing finishes, and nitro-cellulose was a big contributor to the explosion...er...detonation! It is a solid, shipped in drums of alcohol, gun cotton by another older name.

Back to the present, my Gibson J-30 must have a finish similar to your RK...big armprint on the upper bout that I could not get off...Steve Sauve (a Guild authorized service station by the way) buffed out the guitar not unlike what we saw them doing at LMG. Looked brand new, I was over the moon...then I played it for the first time in short sleeves... it's baaack! Interestingly my D55 is immune to such finish marking, just a spritz with the Mist & Wipe that it came with and we are fingerprint or armprint free

 

[wontox]

Dear Wontox,


Sidebar: Remember that big explosion in Danvers several Thanksgiving Eve's ago? That plant was producing finishes, and nitro-cellulose was a big contributor to the explosion...er...detonation! It is a solid, shipped in drums of alcohol, gun cotton by another older name.

Hi Bill,

Yeah, nitrocellulose is pretty much what powers modern bullets. The EKO guitar factory in Italy went up in flames as well. Ever light a cellulose pick? Shoots a long flame out...don't ask me what I was doing lighting picks.... youth.

I figure my RK has such a fragile finish because I don't think they used a sanding sealer or primer to allow the nitro to adhere to the wood....the nitro will adhere well to itself in successive coats, but wood, unless it is roughened, especially mahogany, is not a good surface itself for any slick finish. I queried RK about it online but they just said they don't warranty the finish due to the "nature" of it. Bought the RK used, anyway, so no warranty.

I'm not sure that a nitro finish has superior sound qualities to a well applied thin poly finish. I changed my D-40 from a pocked and pitted nitro finish to a poly one ( six very thin coats) and can't tell any difference in tone—perhaps my sanding thinned the top and compensated. It seems reasonable to assume the nitro allows more vibration but I' m not sure that's necessarily true. Maybe the poly coat actually contributes to tone in some cases. There are some graphite guitars out there that supposedly are indistinguishable from high-quality wood. Nitro sure is pretty, though, it allows a hint of grain and texture. Like you, I don't care for non-glossy finishes on guitars.

I can't help think if the Pilgrims had vinyl siding and Ikea furniture they would have used it, and if guitar makers in the old days had poly they would have used it as well. I think the patina of nostalgia adds a bit of luster to the nitro legend, but I'm sure there are people who know more about this than I who will disagree.

Wontox

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

...sorry...

No need to apologize Bill, just one of many of my personal demons. (Like people who ride in the left lane! :evil: )

 

[cjd-player]

... (Like people who ride in the left lane! :evil: )

Jerry drives in the left lane ...

but he thinks its the right one. :mrgreen:

 

[twocorgis]

Last night at Union Music, I had a few minutes to compare these dreads...that is after we cleaned up after a ridiculously happy Chazmo... :lol:

D40 Traditional: The standard against which all others are judged? Well...low boomy bass (that vibrates your chest when you play her), fine, fine workmanship, perhaps a slightly depressed midrange though I could not tell that until I played other guitars. Perhaps a bit too subdued cosmetically with the tortise binding. Nice overlay on the peghead. Felt a bit "tight," but nothing like my D55 did when new, and certainly nothing a hour with a luthier couldn't tame. But sadly, unexceptional. Not sure who would win in a shootout with a Martin D18 (if thats the similar guitar) or a Taylor.

Wow Bill, that could have been written about the D40 Traditional I just sold, minus the boomy bass. I kept thinking that the Adirondack Spruce top was just really tight, but who knows? Mine probably would have beaten an equivalent Taylor, but never a Martin D18. My D18DC was/is so much better you couldn't even call it a horse race. The guy I sold it to loves it, so it goes to show that there's no accounting for taste.

I'll have to try a Standard when/if one ever surfaces around here. Kind of a moot point though, because I won't be buying any more hog dreads. My Bourgeois Slope D and the D18DC are probably the two best guitars I've ever played (and in that order). I swore I'd never buy another Martin after that clunker '76 D28 I owned and got rid of years ago. Never say never... 8)

 

[Christopher Cozad]

...the referral to inanimate objects as "he" or mostly "she"...will continue to annoy me...

...languages, such as French, do "genderize" inanimate objects...

I am 1/2 French, and I am always annoyed! :wink:

Pronoun genderization can certainly account for some of the usage, as English is derived from the Roman languages that make heavy use of gender. Some folks believe it is more related to matriarchal societies or goddess worship, others see it as men being patronizing.

Personally, I lean toward the romantic notions behind it. I mean, have you ever set an F-series Guild up against a leather sofa and, in the firelight, slightly squinted your eyes to admire those curves? :lol:

Bill, that was a really enjoyable review of the three 40's guitars, guitars I am entirely unfamiliar with. Very educational. Thank you.

Christopher

 

[adorshki]

I'm not sure that a nitro finish has superior sound qualities to a well applied thin poly finish.

It's been debated here, and I'm sure many other places, before.
Trying to get it in a nutshell, the arguments revolve around the physical charateristics of the two as they age and how that affects their ability to resonate. Generally, a brittle material is assumed to dampen the top less, and nitrocellulose becomes progressively more brittle as it ages. Poly would be assumed to have more vibration damping qualities since it's inherently a softer "stretchier" material and doesn't dry out as it ages the way nitro does. Basically, the harder of two materials should transmit vibrations better than the softer one.
Now, can anybody actually hear the difference, even assuming two completely identical guitars COULD be built? Don't know, haven't seen an answer to the question that was based on measured data. In fact I think constructing a valid experiment might be pretty tough if wood was used as the resonating element. No two pieces of wood exactly the same, you know.

 

[adorshki]

My Bourgeois Slope D and the D18DC are probably the two best guitars I've ever played (and in that order). I swore I'd never buy another Martin after that clunker '76 D28 I owned and got rid of years ago. Never say never... 8)

Didn't you have a D50 once?