X170T - I Need Therapy

[GAD]

OK, so this is a weird thread - be warned.

As you all probably know, I own and love this guitar:

I bought it because I love Guilds and I love Brian Setzer, and use it when I'm playing his music. If only I had a brass band and two sexy girls to sing/play with me, but I digress...

Anyway, I love this guitar, but I find myself still wanting a Gretsch. As much as I love the X170T, every time I've played a Gretsch (The Setzer 6120 SSL and SSLVO to be precise), I just find them to be that much more... Gretschy. I wish the X170T had a Master Volume, Ebony board, TV Jones Pickups, Lacquer finish, locking tuners, and so-on.

I've thought about putting a set of TV Jones in the Guild, and even briefly toyed with the idea of installing a MV, but I couldn't bring myself to drill such a pretty guitar. Then I think that I'm just trying to make this into another guitar, and if I want a different guitar, then I should just get what I want.

I know that stock answer on a gear forum is "Get them both!" Problem is, I try to make a point of having only one of each type of guitar. Having an X170T and a Setzer Gretsch would break that rule, and if I liked the Gretsch as much as I think I would, I'd need to sell the Guild. I'd hate to sell this one because they're pretty uncommon, but I think that might just be the OCD collector in me talking.

Here's the model Gretsch I'm referring to:

I think part of why I like the Guild is *because* it's a Guild, which seems stupid to me on an intellectual level. I think this is probably the wrong place to bring that up though. Still if I got the Gretsch, and kept the Guild, the Guild would likely stay in its case unplayed for the most part, and that doesn't seem right.

So here's where you get to play therapist and opine on what the Hell is wrong with me. Have at it!

 

[FNG]

I say get what you want.

 

[MrBoZiffer]

I think installing TV pups would be a good way to try it out and see if it gets the sound you want. Also you could rewire the controls so that you have two volumes, one master tone and one master volume. That way you wouldn't have to drill and you could change it back easily.

If it were me, I'd keep the Guild and just do a little non-invasive experimenting. I'm not familiar with the X170, but it looks awesome and the tone switch seems like a cool feature. I wish I had one on my CE-100.

 

[CajunBlues]

In my opinion is that the only thing you gain by getting the gretsch is the FilterTron sound... That twang that is hard to replicate with a bucker..

If you already have a jazz box with buckers, there really is no need to have the X170T...

If you like to play jazz, the Gretsch will not fit the bill with the Trons... So you need

1) A jazz box if you like to play jazz, and
2) the Gretsch..

Pretty simple if you ask me...

 

[jmac]

hmm...maybe you should find an X-160, and see how you like that sound.

They've got great DeArmond 2000 pick-ups.

 

[AlohaJoe]

I think installing TV pups would be a good way to try it out and see if it gets the sound you want. Also you could rewire the controls so that you have two volumes, one master tone and one master volume. That way you wouldn't have to drill and you could change it back easily.

Now, that's a great idea! I love that wiring plan and the TVs would give you the sound. If you play jazz, keep the bucker in the neck and throw a TV in the bridge.

Of course if the Gretch itch is strong you'll do all that and still want the Gretch, so another alternative is to buy the Gretch with the caveat that you'll sell one of the guitars in 6 months. By then you'll know which one is in the case all the time or if they really serve two different functions. Don't be in too big a hurry to sell, lust often devolves into regret.

I assumed that after I got the X150 modified the way I wanted, the ES125 would be redundant, but it's not. They have very different voices and it turned out that each is the right tool for somewhat different jobs.

 

[gilded]

I like Joe's caveat about buying the Setzer, then selling one or the other in six months. By the way, I'd get the orange Setzer model. That way, you won't have two Reddish guitars if you decide to keep them both :wink:

You're kind of in an interesting position- you know what both guitars sound like, but you have no idea what the Gretsch 'plays like' or 'feels like'. Who knows, it may not be your cup of tea.

Good luck!

 

[GAD]

I like Joe's caveat about buying the Setzer, then selling one or the other in six months. By the way, I'd get the orange Setzer model. That way, you won't have two Reddish guitars if you decide to keep them both :wink:

You're kind of in an interesting position- you know what both guitars sound like, but you have no idea what the Gretsch 'plays like' or 'feels like'. Who knows, it may not be your cup of tea.

Good luck!

I may just do that.

I actually have played the Setzer Gretsches. From North Carolina Guitar Centers to Rudy's in NYC, when I see one, I gotta try it.

Of course that's not the same as owning one, but I like what I've played thus far.

 

[Default]

I lean toward the Eddy Cochrane model side, myself. You could try out the TV Jones english mount Filtertrons, that would be the least invasive. I like the keep six months, sell one idea. I bought a CG doublecut back in the day, and after the initial euphoria wore off, I found that I didn't really like the FT's after all and I could not deal with the mudswitch. I would have been happier if I kept looking for a SF4, instead of settling for what was close.

 

[matsickma]

GAD,

I think you might find the X170 feel and tightness different from the Gretsch. The smaller body and sound post seems to be a unique combination.

Something else - one thing I noticed on my version of your guitar is that the HB1 pickups, precursors to the Fender models (i.e., look like Fenders but say "Guild"), sound different in the HB configuration. Mine don't sound as bright in the HB position as other HB-1 I have owned. I don't know itf it is the pickup or any influence of the extra coil tap wiring on the overall sound. On the other hand in the coil tap position they are Bright. I also notice mine and a 2nd pair I have are WAX potted. If I recall correctly early Guild HB-1 are not wax potted.

I don't think anything I said will effect your decision but in my experiance every time I sold a X170 a little while later I missed it and then bought another. I have fondled 4 different X170's over the years and other than pickguard changes and humbucker ring changes they all were similar in that tight sound and easy handling body.

M

 

[Walter Broes]

Then I think that I'm just trying to make this into another guitar, and if I want a different guitar, then I should just get what I want.

I think that answers your question - if you really want a 6120 Gretsch, get one, it'll feel and sound more like a Gretsch than a Guild that you tried to modify into a Gretsch.

 

[fronobulax]

Then I think that I'm just trying to make this into another guitar, and if I want a different guitar, then I should just get what I want.

I think you answered your own question. Since the economics are not really a factor - within reason you can get what you want - I think you just get the Gretsch. The advice to keep both for several months is solid. If they really do fill the same niche for you then the choice of which one to sell will be an informed decision when the time comes. There is always the chance that with both in the stable you realize they fill different niches.

I also am in favor of leaving the Guild unmodified since you seem pretty clear that you would be trying to make it into something that it is not. Leaving it alone preserves its voice for someone who is looking for just that voice. That someone may even be you in six months ;-)

And to keep things in perspective, unless you are like Billy D. Light or one of the other folks who is raising an upcoming generation of players, whatever you do will just be "one more thing for the kids to sell in the Estate Sale".

 

[cc_mac]

I suffer from Shallow Pocket Syndrome (SPS) and the middle to higher end Gretsch guitars are out of my price range but I did buy an Electromatic 5120 at the beginning of last year and it's a fine guitar. My only complaint would be the nut is pretty crappily cut and needed some futzing with. I've thought about swapping in some TV Jones pickups to replace the stock Gretsch pups but haven't had the extra cash - SPS again. The fit and finish on the 5120 is quite nice on mine which is a 125th Anniversary issue is just gorgeous to me. I keep mine strung up with Chrome 12 flatwounds and although I am not really a jazz guitarist I find that it produces very nice mellow tone when everything is adjusted properly.Other than bolt on items and perhaps a prettier laminate top I am note sure what could be structurally different between the 5120 and 6120. I've decided to sell mine to finance another Guild in the near future but I do like the Gretsch guitars!

 

[Walter Broes]

CCMac, flatwounds ànd humbuckers? Blanket over the amp too? :wink:

 

[mad dog]

GAD:

I'm coming at this from the opposite direction. A long time X170 appreciator, though I never owned one. Lately, I had my chance, but passed, since I already have a Gretsch Electromatic 5120.

No, it's not that high end Gretsch. But after living with it awhile, I would not trade it for anything. This particular guitar was from the early, pre-full production run of the 5120. Peerless made, it's a slightly thinner body than the production version. Has larger F-holes, a fixed bridge, and a tension bar roller. The original owner was kind enough to install Gretsch HS Filtertrons. It's one hell of a guitar for short money:

I ended up passing on two X170s. One just like yours, the other no Bigsby. Realized the format was too close, and with the 5120 in hand, no need to distract myself.

Filtertrons are different. I much prefer them to the Duncan p/us I've heard in the later Guilds. Just my taste of course.
MD

 

[CajunBlues]

CCMac, flatwounds ànd humbuckers? Blanket over the amp too? :wink:

Well, the L5, ES-175, x700 etc.. all have humbuckers... So it's not the humbuckers, but flatwounds on a guitar that isn't playing jazz would not be my choice... Or flatwounds on a solid body or semi-hollow would not be my choice either... But what's really weird is there is a guy on the Gibson forum that strung up his Les Paul with flatwounds to play the blues...

CCMac, if you want a more mellow round wound, try a heavier gauge PURE nickel string like the Gibson L5 strings...

And of course this is just my opnion... so its certainly ok to disagree But the Thomsatik/Infeld flatwounds are so much better than the D'addarios... Much warmer and richer tone...

 

[cc_mac]

Walter - that's pretty darn funny!

Cajun Blues - thanks for the flatwound suggestions. I'd not played with them until about two years ago when I bought a used Ibanez Artcore AK95 that was already strung with flats. About a year ago I paid a visit to Paul Setzer and played about 6 of his vintage 1950s and early 1960s Gretsch hollowbodies all of which were strung with flatwounds. He had a locally homebuilt amp made from old record player tube amp parts into a 2x12 cab. I totally rocked in the weirdest way but I like the sound and feel of it. Depending on my mood I keep flats or round 52-12 with wound G on the 5120 which sounds fantastic! I'll look around locally for the Pure. No one in town has the Thomsatiks so I'll need to break down and order some.

Mad Dog - you 5120 looks AWESOME!

 

[kakerlak]

I like the DA Chromes. I think they've got a snappier sound than regular flats and I don't really like mellow flatwounds. Right now I only have my X700 strung w/ those flats, but I've run them on some others before and they sound pretty good on my old Jazzmaster, in particular. Sometimes that plunky, snappy flatwound sound can be pretty good for old time rockabilly and surf-ish stuff and the chromes seem well suited for that.

 

[waveland]

I wouldn't try to make the Guild a Gretsch......"ain't nothing like the real thing baby..."

The suggestion of keeping them both for a while and seeing which one suits you best over time seems to be the most popular and makes the most sense.

Best of all, these are GOOD problems you're facing! Have a great weekend!

 

[GAD]

Thanks all.

So I think they way to go for me is to have them both for a while. I used to have a beautiful X170 blonde. I'll kick myself if I decide to keep a Gretsch because it would make more sense to me to have a regular X170 along with a Gretsch.

GAS is a horrible disease.

I know - I'll just get a bigger house and keep them all!