Wound G or non Wound G, that is the question...

MojoTooth

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As you guys saw I got a Starfire II and really love the guitar. When I had it setup up I had a Wound G put on it.

I was chatting with some guys at the local blues jam tonight and they were saying that I should change it out to a regular G string because playing the blues with a wound G won't work out too well. Something about not being able to get the same bends and not being able to stay in key due to the string being wound. Keep in mind I had several drinks prior to think convo and don't remember everything that was said or mentioned, so I figured I would check with you guys to see what you think.

Starfire II, playing blues music, wound G or no Wound G...or does it not really matter?

Thanks in advance...
 

Brad Little

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Personally, I would never put an unwound 'G' on an archtop. That said, they are right as are as not being able to bend as much. As to staying in tune? I doubt if there's much difference as long as the guitar is adjusted right and it's not a brand spanking new string. If you're comfortable with an unwound, try it and see, then you'll know for sure.
Brad
 

Walter Broes

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A plain G string is harder to intonate, and is harder to balance volume-wise than a wound G, but I like to bend strings and the thin core on a wound G would break all the time, and the windings on it tear up my frets a little too fast - so it's plain G strings for me. (11, 15, 18, 28, 38, 49 D'Addario XL's)
 

GAD

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Plain G for me because of the bending. I have plain Gs on all my guitars. Only one that doesn't is my acoustic, but it has 13s on it. I couldn't bend the G string if I tried! :)
 

FNG

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I hear this somewheres...

You can't play Chuck Berry with a wound G string.
 

MojoTooth

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I haven't noticed any issues or had trouble with bending the wound G yet. And I figured the whole "going out of tune" comment was null and void if you have a proper setup. My luthier is a close friend and I trust his advice on these things so that's why I found it funny that several people would speak so badly of a wound G last night. After playing a few days with the wound it seems to bend just as easily for me as the G on a regular set of 10's. Other than the wound being suggested by my luthier and my guitar instructor, who both know my style of play, bends, etc, my concern was the intonation which is near perfect after setup and volume like Walter said.

Thanks for the info and feedback fellas
 

MojoTooth

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FNG said:
I hear this somewheres...

You can't play Chuck Berry with a wound G string.

Honestly, I can't think of a single Chuck Berry song that I would want to play! :lol: So I will be ok there!
 

yettoblaster

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I don't think bending a half step is a problem on a wound G, but if your style demands bending a whole step or double B/G string bends (ala Chuck Berry) I'd use a plain G.

I use a plain G because I like to throw Country sounding faux-steel guitar "G bends" in the background of jazz ballads to break up the trumpet player and throw the singer off. 8)
 

FNG

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MojoTooth said:
FNG said:
I hear this somewheres...

You can't play Chuck Berry with a wound G string.

Honestly, I can't think of a single Chuck Berry song that I would want to play! :lol: So I will be ok there!

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
 

MojoTooth

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I think just to see what the regular G sounds and feels like I am going to switch them out this afternoon and see what happens. I play mainly blues and I do heavy bends at times, not really sure if they are full or half step bends, i just now how they feel and sound. Maybe the regular G will be better, I will have to try them both.

FNG said:
MojoTooth said:
FNG said:
I hear this somewheres...

You can't play Chuck Berry with a wound G string.

Honestly, I can't think of a single Chuck Berry song that I would want to play! :lol: So I will be ok there!

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Don't get me wrong, Chuck Berry has some good music, but it is just not my taste or style really. Good to listen to, but I don't want to play it.
 

AlohaJoe

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yettoblaster said:
I like to throw Country sounding faux-steel guitar "G bends" in the background of jazz ballads to break up the trumpet player and throw the singer off. 8)
:lol: Or when the singer holds a note, play the same note and then bend it about 1/4 tone.... now THAT'S what I call a good time! :lol:
 

MojoTooth

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Not sure what to make of it really, I had a lesson today with my instructor and we jammed out for a good 2 hours. Played lots of blues, solos, etc...I had no issues getting the bends I need out of the wound G string.

Funny thing is I would need to go with a slightly thicker wound G for perfect intonation, but right now it is just about perfect. I will probably keep it there as my main concern was getting the bends I needed and I feel comfortable with it after playing today with someone who is experienced with these things.
 

adorshki

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AlohaJoe said:
yettoblaster said:
I like to throw Country sounding faux-steel guitar "G bends" in the background of jazz ballads to break up the trumpet player and throw the singer off. 8)
:lol: Or when the singer holds a note, play the same note and then bend it about 1/4 tone.... now THAT'S what I call a good time! :lol:
You naughty naughty boys!
 

Jeff Haddad

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I have found that the windings on a wound G string are the problem for me. They (just the windings) break where they contact the frets. That might just be frets in need of a dressing, but there ya go. I stick with a plain G w/ an .011 set.
 

kakerlak

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A lot of good points (and a few good jokes) have been made, but here's my rambling thoughts on wound/plain Gs, just for the hell of it:

For any given gauge, say .18, for example, a wound string and plain string are about as different as can be. Since the wound string is two-piece, the inner, plain core wire is pretty thing gauge and so is the outer wound wrap. The winding wrap is usually very fine gauge and somewhat delicate, compared to the lower 3 strings' larger-gauge windings. Over time, the pressing and rubbing against the frets will dent and grind away the bottom of the wound wrap (everybody's probably seen this when changing old strings). This is probably the biggest factor in strings going "dead" over time. Plain strings don't seem to really ever start sounding dull, but I always figured that, once the wound strings have a lot of wear along the fretting points, they become somewhat segmented. Though the inner core wire is still what handles the tension and vibrates, I imagine the segmented nature of a worn-down winding kills a bit of the transfer of vibration along the string's length.

The wound G's windings are so delicate that, if you bend a lot, sometimes the dent/gouge at the fretting points will get to the point that it actually wears through and severs the wound outer wrap. The inner core wire is also probably about as thin as the high E, so it's easier to break than a plain G of the same thickness as the overall combo of inner and outer wire on a same gauge wound string.

Loudness and intonation: For the sake of both factors, it's best to consider the wound strings as more or less the gauge that their inner wires are.

The thicker a wire you have, the longer the string length gets to intonate correctly, with respect to smaller strings. That's why archtop bridges get increasing shorter (string length wise) from low E to G, then jump back longer for the B and then shorter again for the Hi E. That's b/c most are designed for a wound G set of strings and the wound G is about as thin (on the inside) as the Hi E. Without being able to adjust the individual string lengths on a carved wood bridge, a plain G will usually fall sharp w/ respect to the other strings b/c it's actually thicker than the B.

Loudness is the same story, the plain G is usually about the thickest string on the guitar (vs. the inner wire in the wound strings). As such, it's the loudest as far as magnetic pickups picking up the vibrations. With non-adjustable pickups, like Strat pickups, etc, this can be a problem w/ relative string balance. The stagger on Strat pickup pole pieces is designed for wound-G strings, and makes the G pole the tallest, in order to balance its slight volume against the louder/thicker wound strings and also the louder/thicker B and E. Throwing a plain G on will make for a string that's pretty loud against its neighbors.

Neither of those factors matter with individually adjustable poles or saddles, but older guitars are usually designed for the wound G and fixed adjustments on them are preset accordingly. Likewise, some modern parts are designed that way as it's more or less traditional.

As for bending, the thing that throws me off is that it seems you have to physically bend the G farther (further across the fretboard) w/ a wound string than a plain to make the same raise in note. Not necessarily harder to do, but kind of plays with your muscle memory that tends to know how far to bend any given string to get it where you want on any given fret.

The thin wound G is usually a mellow-ish string, where a big thick plain G is brash and loud. Personally, I like the in your face metallic sound of a plain G and that's what I end up with. (Using 10-52 guage nickel strings w/ plain G)
 

MojoTooth

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Good info there kakerlak!

I am going to roll with the wound G until I am ready to change strings, next set I am going to use a plain G and see what happens...
 

jmac

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The thicker a wire you have, the longer the string length gets to intonate correctly, with respect to smaller strings. That's why archtop bridges get increasing shorter (string length wise) from low E to G, then jump back longer for the B and then shorter again for the Hi E. That's b/c most are designed for a wound G set of strings and the wound G is about as thin (on the inside) as the Hi E. Without being able to adjust the individual string lengths on a carved wood bridge, a plain G will usually fall sharp w/ respect to the other strings b/c it's actually thicker than the B.

The bridge on my X-160 gets shorter to the D string, then gets longer for the G string and shorter towards the E

I use an unwound G. Not that I put a whole lot of thought into it, but it seems to make more sense to have the top three strings unwound. I play mostly solo jazz, and blues (a combination of finger style and chord substitution).
 

MojoTooth

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jmac said:
I use an unwound G. Not that I put a whole lot of thought into it, but it seems to make more sense to have the top three strings unwound. I play mostly solo jazz, and blues (a combination of finger style and chord substitution).

have you noticed any issues with the intonation being out or off when using the unwound G?

when I had my guitar at my luthier, the intonation was definitely off with the unwound and perfect with the wound, but maybe he could tweak the bridge a bide to make the unwound hit perfect intonation.
 

Jeff Haddad

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jmac wrote:
The bridge on my X-160 gets shorter to the D string, then gets longer for the G string and shorter towards the E

On the recent/newer Guilds, the bridges are compensated for the unwound G. I've seen Bigsby bridges compensated both ways - with the G string either shorter or longer. So his X160 should intonate properly with the unwound G, that's what it was planned being used with.
 

MojoTooth

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Jeff Haddad said:
jmac wrote:
The bridge on my X-160 gets shorter to the D string, then gets longer for the G string and shorter towards the E

On the recent/newer Guilds, the bridges are compensated for the unwound G. I've seen Bigsby bridges compensated both ways - with the G string either shorter or longer. So his X160 should intonate properly with the unwound G, that's what it was planned being used with.

mine is a 1997 Starfire II, but I am not sure about the bridge, my luthier seemed to think it was made for a wound and the intonation went wild with the unwound.

I am still a relative newbie with guitar playing but here is a question:

Is intonation something I should worry about heavily if I am going to be playing mostly blues music and some rock? Meaning, if I go with the unwound G in favor of better bends does that mean I will be sacrificing a lot by not being perfectly intonated? I don;t play live or anything yet, but probably soon I will give our local blues jam a try as I have been playing with a couple guys who frequent the jam and they have asked me to play with them soon. My instructor said he would always have a wound G on his archtops and he has several Guild archtops. He even said he would go with a little bit larger G sinc ethe intonation was "almost" perfect with the one I had and would move over to perfect with a slightly bigger wound G. But he also plays mainly jazz and music where intonation has to be perfect.
 
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