Why did the maple guitars have to use pressed laminate Maple for the backs?

[adorshki]

In the past people went to a seer for advice, I'm not sure what they do now.

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[adorshki]

If you can find the opportunity do a back-to-back comparison with a Martin d18 and an Arched back spruce top Guild d25. Very similar guitars, about $1,000 difference in price, and the laminated Arched back on the d25 versus flat solid mahogany back on the Martin. Then you'll know the difference

Better yet just get a D25 and a D40. I did.

 

[richt54]

Patience, see my other answers. It's not all about volume, I think the "volume" issue is overrated. It's more about the overtones and projection, "presence".





Maple tends to sound thin and over-trebly in flatbacks. As a tone wood it benefits from tha archback design, and most Guild maple bodies have ben arch backed from day one with the F40.

Like I said previously, when Adorshki answers, I always learn a thing or 10.
One more semi related question.
I’ve been looking at at JF65-12 built in 1996. Would that have been a far enough along in production for Fender quality control measures to have been implemented?

 

[adorshki]

Like I said previously, when Adorshki answers, I always learn a thing or 10.
One more semi related question.
I’ve been looking at at JF65-12 built in 1996. Would that have been a far enough along in production for Fender quality control measures to have been implemented?

Sale to Fender finalized in Nov. '95. Neckblock date of my D25 Oct 31 1996. Seems they had things well in hand by then, going by my experience.
I think it would have taken 'em at least 3 or 4 months though.

PS just realized I screwed up my editing in post #40, wanted to be sure you saw the answer about why rosewood is most commonly flatbacked.

 

[kitniyatran]

I think the best head to head would be a D25/D4/DCE1 vs a DV25/D35/DV4
I've owned both a Westerly DV4 (solid mahogany sides and back ) and two different DCE1s (mahogany sides and arched back). Both are straight braced. And the sound is notably different. In this particular matchup I happen to much prefer the sound of the arched back. The DV4 was great - even, nice mids, decent bass. But both DCE1s were/are louder, with more sustain.

I have an F44, small jumbo with solid maple back and sides. a few years back I was offered a great deal on a GF30 (solid maple sides, arched maple back), but turned it down thinking I didn't need another maple mini-jumbo. In hindsight, especially after picking up another DCE1, I probably should've taken the deal, the two guitars are probably different enough.

I referred to Martin d18 versus Guild d 25 comparison because for many many many many years I had a Martin d18 which I always considered to be a very good guitar, putting other Martins that I tried to shame, and as far as the woods and pretty much everything aside from the arched back of the d25, they are very similar structurally. When I got the d25 I realized that it puts d18s to shame with the richness and the general oomph: the projection of it

 

[fronobulax]

Would that have been a far enough along in production for Fender quality control measures to have been implemented?

As I recall FMIC did not change manufacturing processes. Thus you could not tell who owned the company when the guitar was made just by inspecting the instrument. What FMIC did do is change the frequency and nature of internal inspections so that the probability of a flawed instrument actually leaving the factory was reduced. That is a subtle distinction but my recollection is that it was important to the folks who worked there and reported it here.

My personal experience "down in the trenches" is that it takes 6 to 12 months for changes made by a new corporate owner to actually trickle down and change what I do or how I do it.

 

[GGJaguar]

My personal experience "down in the trenches" is that it takes 6 to 12 months for changes made by a new corporate owner to actually trickle down and change what I do or how I do it.

Same for me. Almost always 12 months, though. Probably depends on the industry and size of the companies involved (mine were very large).

 

[plaidseason]

I referred to Martin d18 versus Guild d 25 comparison because for many many many many years I had a Martin d18 which I always considered to be a very good guitar, putting other Martins that I tried to shame, and as far as the woods and pretty much everything aside from the arched back of the d25, they are very similar structurally. When I got the d25 I realized that it puts d18s to shame with the richness and the general oomph: the projection of it

I didn't mean to come off like I was knocking your comparison! I more meant to underscore your point.

I think your match up makes a more dramatic point. A couple of years ago soundly concluded that I prefer the D25 to both the Martin D18 and Gibson J45.

 

[Neal]

I own a 1953 Guild X-150 prototype. The back is arched maple ply. The top is arched spruce ply. I presume the sides are solid maple.

This is one of the first-year guitars upon which Al Dronge would have staked the reputation of his new company. He didn’t use laminate to save money. He used it to beat Gibson and Epiphone at their own game.

 

[adorshki]

I own a 1953 Guild X-150 prototype. The back is arched maple ply. The top is arched spruce ply. I presume the sides are solid maple.

This is one of the first-year guitars upon which Al Dronge would have staked the reputation of his new company. He didn’t use laminate to save money. He used it to beat Gibson and Epiphone at their own game.

And after all, Guild having been formed using a significant number of Epiphone "refugees", what better thieves to set to catch a thief?

This's on Reverb:
https://reverb.com/item/21721884-epiphone-emperor-1946-blonde

18-1/2" lower bout, baby!!

 

[Guildedagain]

Epi was a rather giant thorn in Gibson's paw.

 

[Norrissey]

I do love the sound of maple

You might want to try a Guild D44M, that's a really nice spruce top, solid maple back and sides flat back dreadnought that was made in the '70s.

 

[adorshki]

You might want to try a Guild D44M, that's a really nice spruce top, solid maple back and sides flat back dreadnought that was made in the '70s.

In fact, here's one now:
https://www.georgetownmusicstore.com/?product=1974-vintage-guild-d44m-bld

 

[richt54]

You might want to try a Guild D44M, that's a really nice spruce top, solid maple back and sides flat back dreadnought that was made in the '70s.

Guild USA F-412 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

Traded for this one. So i will have a 12 string maple from Tacoma.

 

[adorshki]

Guild USA F-412 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

Traded for this one. So i will have a 12 string maple from Tacoma.

OOoh, it's an '07 and that TRC looks like it's got the single truss neck, little slimmer profile than the traditional dual trusses.
And Iced Tea Burst, one of my faves!

Congrats!

 

[richt54]

OOoh, it's an '07 and that TRC looks like it's got the single truss neck, little slimmer profile than the traditional dual trusses.
And Iced Tea Burst, one of my faves!

Congrats!

Thanks. I really like my current big guy JF55-12. Which is probably a dual truss config. I would defer to Chazmo for the truss rod on this one, since he has both a F-512 and and F-412 from the Tacoma factory.

 

[adorshki]

Thanks. I really like my current big guy JF55-12. Which is probably a dual truss config. I would defer to Chazmo for the truss rod on this one, since he has both a F-512 and and F-412 from the Tacoma factory.

JF55-12's always had the dual truss, the single truss hadn't been introduced yet.

Tacoma introduced the single truss (with dual flanking graphite stabilizing rods) sometime in '07 as a running change.
His 512 is an '06 and has dual rods, his 412 is an '07 and has the single truss.

Of necessity the TRC's on the dual rod necks were pretty wide. The single rod necks have correspondingly narrower TRC's which yours appears to have.

And if Chaz's s/n is lower than the one you get then you can be pretty darn sure you've got a single, but all it takes is a peek under the cover to be sure.

 

[richt54]

OOoh, it's an '07 and that TRC looks like it's got the single truss neck, little slimmer profile than the traditional dual trusses.
And Iced Tea Burst, one of my faves!

Congrats!

What is meant by “a slimmer profile”? I think my JF55-12 is over 7 lbs. Will this guitar feel lighter and smaller?

 

[adorshki]

What is meant by “a slimmer profile”? I think my JF55-12 is over 7 lbs. Will this guitar feel lighter and smaller?

Neck profile. The original dual truss design required a wider and deeper neck. The nut width spec was still 11-13/16" but the new design allowed a slightly less "C" and more "D" shape cross-section and shallower overall depth.

Lotta guys say they're more comfortable which IIRC was a primary design goal, also to cure the issue that the 12-ers were "neck heavy" as originally designed.

The dual trusses were originally intended to be able to be individually adjusted to offset the large difference in tension from the bass to the treble side of the neck, but of course it tends to resist bowing a lot more too. That's where the stabilizing rods come in in the new design.

They're also dual action trusses, meaning they can create either forward OR backbow in the neck, independent of string tension. Easier relief adjustment.

 

[F-412Spec]

Why not make a RW version with an arched back?

Oh there are such models!

Among others, F-50R, F-412Special, F-512. I think that old rockstar rosewood slothead signature protoype also had an arched back (?)