Which NON UST pickup? Opinions?

[chazzan]

Tonight I just took out the Fishman Matrix UST pickup I had in my 78 f-30 for 4+ years

All I can say is that even with the shorter saddle and string height- I can't remember the guitar sounding this good!

Bottom line for me is that yes the undersaddle pickup does Reduce and Diminish tone in a noticable way ie volume, tone qualit,y and sustain.

will have to buy a "dummy" plug for the endpin hole for the fishman.

My question is which NON UST pickup sounds the best- I heard great things about K & K, but are there others (brands/ pickup types ect) out there- I'm tending to lean towards pickups that are under the bridge plate transducers, but am open to considering others........ also do I need a preamp with the K&K if I use an active direct box?

I will be installing it in my F-20 for gigs- the f-30 will remain acoustic for now.

Thanks!

 

[steverok]

My experience with the K&K is that it does need a pre-amp to achieve its full potential, and that it is rather prone to feedback. I have it in two of my Guild 12-strings. Originally, I had an LR Baggs Active Element in my GAD, but I took it out rather quickly, as I thought the 12-string sound wasn't so good. I installed the K&K, and have been happy with it. I also had one in a Gibson J-45, but it sounded weak, thin, and unsatisfying, even with the pre-amp. I replaced it with a PUTW I/O, paired with an LR Baggs PADI, and it sounds way better. The PUTW is a UST, and I noticed no loss in acoustic tone with the J-45.

The subject as to whether UST's degrade acoustic tone is about as debatable as whether bridge pins make a difference. I know a very qualified luthier who says it doesn't make much more than a hill of beans difference. One topic that isn't debatable is whether the K&K sounds better with a pre-amp. You simply don't get the fullness, definition, or bass response without the pre-amp, although it may be use-able in certain situations. I have both the K&K pure pre-amp, and the PADI, and both work well with the K&K.

Do you already have a UST in your F20? If so, I would leave it, and try the K&K in your F30, since it already has the hole widened for the jack. If I were a gigging musician, in a band, I would certainly be using a UST equipped guitar.

My $0.02.

Steve

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I'm using a combination of a UST and a SBT (like the K&K) and, while it feeds back a little easier than with only a UST, it's nowhere nearly as bad as trying to use a SBT (or two) alone, and the sound quality is well worth it...the UST gives me the clear "sound of the strings" and the SBT give me the "wood" sound.

I started out w/ just the UST, and added the SBT later, by running them together in mono, and trying different spots until I found the right one, the one that comes closest to the guitar in question's "natural" tone.

I run my guitars (Guild JF-4, (2) Guild F212XLs, Guild GAD JF-48, Taylor 355, Gibson J-200) into a Baggs PADI to preamp/EQ the signal.

 

[chazmo]

My experience with the K&K is that it does need a pre-amp to achieve its full potential, and that it is rather prone to feedback. I have it in two of my Guild 12-strings. Originally, I had an LR Baggs Active Element in my GAD, but I took it out rather quickly, as I thought the 12-string sound wasn't so good. I installed the K&K, and have been happy with it. I also had one in a Gibson J-45, but it sounded weak, thin, and unsatisfying, even with the pre-amp. I replaced it with a PUTW I/O, paired with an LR Baggs PADI, and it sounds way better. The PUTW is a UST, and I noticed no loss in acoustic tone with the J-45.

The subject as to whether UST's degrade acoustic tone is about as debatable as whether bridge pins make a difference. I know a very qualified luthier who says it doesn't make much more than a hill of beans difference. One topic that isn't debatable is whether the K&K sounds better with a pre-amp. You simply don't get the fullness, definition, or bass response without the pre-amp, although it may be use-able in certain situations. I have both the K&K pure pre-amp, and the PADI, and both work well with the K&K.

Do you already have a UST in your F20? If so, I would leave it, and try the K&K in your F30, since it already has the hole widened for the jack. If I were a gigging musician, in a band, I would certainly be using a UST equipped guitar.

My $0.02.

Steve

I performed on stage last summer with K&K pure western mini installed in my F512. As long as the monitors aren't pointing at your guitar, I don't know if feedback is a huge problem. Then again, if you move around a lot, I suppose it could be.

I got the K&K XLR preamp too, but haven't used it. I had a short-run 1/4" jack right into the mixing head, so I guess there was no problem there.

All I can say is that I really like the sound I was getting. I suppose your mileage may vary.

 

[chazzan]

Thanks for the 2c...... it helps in decision making

I don't play with a rock band in bars anymore so I don't need a pickup that will not feed back- if this was the case I'd keep the fishman in the f-30.

I play smaller venues now and w/o rock level bass and drums so I am interested more in tone than how loud I can get w/o fedback- I tried a K&K equipped guitar a martin DM a few days ago into a regular acoustic amp- the sound was pretty good- kind of a cross between a miniflex microphone and a UST-

is there a difference between K&K and Pick up the World?

 

[Punkybub]

I'm a big K&K fan - it's the only pickup I put into any guitar I play out or plan to record with. They will feedback if you're in a loud situation, but it's nothing that a rubber soundhole plug-thingy (Feedback buster) can't fix, especially if you're not fighting a bass/drum volume tidal wave.

I tried a PUTW early on, and it didn't have the natural sound the K&K has - less woody, a bit thinner to my ear. I returned it and bought another K&K.

You can use the K&K w/o a preamp if you need to - in fact it'll sound better that way than w/a crappy preamp IMHO - but the K&K Pure Pre (the little box w/a few knobs) is really good. You don't get all the bells and whistles of other more expensive preamps but it's fairly transparent and doesn't color the tone.

YMMV, my .02, blah blah...

 

[sitka_spruce]

My experience with the K&K is that it does need a pre-amp to achieve its full potential, and that it is rather prone to feedback. I have it in two of my Guild 12-strings. Originally, I had an LR Baggs Active Element in my GAD, but I took it out rather quickly, as I thought the 12-string sound wasn't so good. I installed the K&K, and have been happy with it. I also had one in a Gibson J-45, but it sounded weak, thin, and unsatisfying, even with the pre-amp. I replaced it with a PUTW I/O, paired with an LR Baggs PADI, and it sounds way better. The PUTW is a UST, and I noticed no loss in acoustic tone with the J-45.

The subject as to whether UST's degrade acoustic tone is about as debatable as whether bridge pins make a difference. I know a very qualified luthier who says it doesn't make much more than a hill of beans difference. One topic that isn't debatable is whether the K&K sounds better with a pre-amp. You simply don't get the fullness, definition, or bass response without the pre-amp, although it may be use-able in certain situations. I have both the K&K pure pre-amp, and the PADI, and both work well with the K&K.

Do you already have a UST in your F20? If so, I would leave it, and try the K&K in your F30, since it already has the hole widened for the jack. If I were a gigging musician, in a band, I would certainly be using a UST equipped guitar.

My $0.02.

Steve

I performed on stage last summer with K&K pure western mini installed in my F512. As long as the monitors aren't pointing at your guitar, I don't know if feedback is a huge problem. Then again, if you move around a lot, I suppose it could be.

I got the K&K XLR preamp too, but haven't used it. I had a short-run 1/4" jack right into the mixing head, so I guess there was no problem there.

All I can say is that I really like the sound I was getting. I suppose your mileage may vary.

Can't you just phase it if so? I actually don't think it would feedback in the same way an UST or microphone would, but then you can't get away from feedback entirely.

 

[krysh]

I am using the fishman rare earth soundhole humbucker I bought used from a kind forum-member with a l.r. baggs para-di preamp and I must say, through a pa it sounds really great. not necessarily the original acoustic sound but a great acoustic sound for live.
the rare earth blender should be top of the line if you might consider the high price.

 

[bighouse]

I've lately been lusting over the Seymour Duncan MagMic soundhole pickup. It's a combined internal mic with a magnetic pickup, like the Fishman Rare Earth blend, but the SD has two adjustable pole pieces per string, so lots of adjustment. You can't dial out the mag p/u, but can adjust the level of mic in the blend. Reviews are mostly very positive, and some big names are using them. Now, where did I put that $228?