Where t obuy a new saddle for a D-55 ?

kostask

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
1,021
Reaction score
490
Bridge/saddle height is set by the neck angle, as they are adjustable and the neck angle isn't (assuming that a neck reset it not being performed). The point is to get enough energy into the top to vibrate it so that it sounds its best. The amount of energy required is set by the top thickness and material (several varieties of spruce, mahogany, maple, and cedar, although there are others), and the top bracing, as well as string tension (either variations in the strings, or string gauge). All of that is designed in. and not variable without basically rebuilding the guitar. Guild's production methods, from what I am gathering above, is to sand the bridge height down to match the neck angle. I have seen hand builders do it the other way around: use a standard height bridge, and fit the neck joint so that the neck angle matches the bridge. It is probably more consistent with the way the hand builders do it, but would be too time consuming to do in a volume production environment.

The ideal way would be to actually be able to measure the downward string pressure, but this is not really possible, so we (as in the acoustic guitar world in general) have a couple of ways of getting the required string energy into the top: either bu changing string gauge or string brand (variation between various light gauge strings). or by adjusting the height of the saddle. Lowering a saddle changes the string break angle, which also changes the string energy going into the top. excessively low saddle have a shallow string break angle, and less string energy is put into the top. Excessively tall saddles put too much stress on the front of the bridge, and can cause the front edge of the bridge to split (this can also be caused by a too loose fit of the saddle to the bridge, or even a too tight fit of the saddle to the bridge). Between those two extremes, adjust the saddle height to suit the playability that the player is looking for.

The Frank Ford specifications look right to me. Anything within 1/16" to 3/32" should work fine in just about all guitars. But the real determinant is the neck angle, and that will vary from guitar to guitar (even in the same brand model) and from brand to brand. I wouldn't be concerned with Al's D40 combined saddle/bridge height if the action is OK for him, and there bridge is not showing any signs of cracking. There may be a little bit more neck angle on that particular D40.

Factory saddles are left high intentionally, because you can't stretch a saddle's height, but you can easily shorten it. Factories also ship guitars knowing that most of them will have a setup done prior to delivery, so the saddle height will be set for the player then.

Headstock mass is not really a concern with volume, but is it through that it has a very minor effect on tone, and a more substantial effect on sustain. That is somewhat controversial, but adding some amount of headstock mass (in the form of a capo clipped onto a headstock temporarily) does add to sustain. When a guitar is vibrating, all part of the guitar vibrate to some extent, the top, sides, back, neck, air inside the body, etc., and not all of them vibrate at the same frequency, so the vibrations have an extremely complex interaction.How all of these interactions work with/against each other is what makes the tone of the guitar. Most of the tone and volume of the guitar come from the top; however, the vibrations from the other parts of the guitar colour the tone of the guitar in many ways, although they are minor contributors.
 

kostask

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
1,021
Reaction score
490
The funny part is that even with the action and saddle at those heights, the intonation is pretty darn good ! Which is why I want to reserve the original saddle, just in case I need to put it back to square one.

Just for data for those following along... bridge plus saddle is 15mm or 19/32. So, if 1/2" in the target by Frank Ford. I just need to go down 3/32 or so. That backs up the twice the distance at the nut to lower at the 12th fret measurement.

Neck relief ( capo 1st, and finger on 14th method ) is about 1/32 or less than 1mm. That works out to 0.03125", so it COULD go a bit flatter. Gazing up from the bridge to the nut, it looks pretty flat.

I generally don't play out or in blue grass circles, so max volume and heaving strumming aren't really needed. I just don't want to induce buzzing at the 1st-4th frets, to get lower action at the 12th.

Buzzing at the first few frets is an issue to be addressed at the nut, not the saddle, or the first few frets are loose/popping up. Action at the 12 th fret is set by the height of the saddle. Bring the saddle down to get the action at the 12th fret to 5-6/64 on the bass side and 4-5/64 on the treble side, and see if you have any buzzing at the first few frets. Also, you will probably need to check the intonation of the guitar if the saddle height is lowered.
 

Big-Al

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
254
Reaction score
1
Buzzing at the first few frets is an issue to be addressed at the nut, not the saddle, or the first few frets are loose/popping up. Action at the 12 th fret is set by the height of the saddle. Bring the saddle down to get the action at the 12th fret to 5-6/64 on the bass side and 4-5/64 on the treble side, and see if you have any buzzing at the first few frets. Also, you will probably need to check the intonation of the guitar if the saddle height is lowered.
If a nut slot is too low the string will only buzz when played open. If the slot is too high then the string will be hard to fret on the first few frets.

Really, a complete systematic setup needs to be done from time to time on any guitar, including checks of nut height, neck angle, neck relief, high or low frets, break angle, and saddle height.
 

JohnW63

Enlightened Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
6,354
Reaction score
2,256
Location
Southern California
Guild Total
4
I finally took the time to pull off the strings and will send it off to Bob for a shorter copy to be made. I took some more measurements, with the strings off from both the front and back sides of the saddle and from the high e side and the low E side. I've decided to ask him to lower it less than I originally thought. With everything off and putting the saddle back in, it really seems that all I need is a 1/32" off on the treble end and 2/32" on the low end. I figure I could sand a little off, if I needed to, on the new saddle to dial it in.

Bob needs the original saddle to make the new one, as he hasn't done one for a D-55, so off it goes. I'll post the results when it gets back and I have a test play.
 

chazmo

Super Moderator
Gold Supporting
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
26,499
Reaction score
7,851
Location
Central Massachusetts
Sounds good, John. Now that you have two saddles, try shaving the saddle a little bit at a time on sandpaper on a flat surface if it still needs it. Couldn't be easier, really. If that doesn't work for you, I strongly suggest that since you live in the land of luthiers/builders that you find one and bring it in for a setup. Most of these builders do repair work, y'know. All I can say, John, is that I know from experience that a guitar that doesn't play the way you want it will never be loved. Just me talkin'.
 

Neal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
4,874
Reaction score
1,682
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Not sure if string gauge has been mentioned earlier in this thread, if so I apologize.

Your F-47 is spec'd for Lights, while that D-55 was built to take Mediums.

Lighter strings exert less pull on the neck, usually resulting in lower action. The F-47 and D-55 were designed for a different attack, the D-55's being more agressive.

Having said that, after using Mediums on all of my larger guitars for several years, I am experimenting with Lights once in a while. Changing from Mediums to Lights lowers action a good bit.

Just one more thing to consider when lowering the saddle. Of course, the impact of changing string gauge can be mitigated by adjusting the truss rod accordingly to achieve the correct relief for the strings used.
 
Last edited:
Top