When did F-40 change over?

[chazmo]

Hi gang,

I don't have the bible available, and perhaps this happened after 1977.... And, I don't know if we've discussed this before....

But, was there a switchover time from when F-40s went from being arched maple backs to solid mahogany? Are/were those the only two variations? Oh, and we don't need to get into CMG changing the entire definition of an F-40 body shape.... That's not what I'm asking.

 

[SFIV1967]

The Valencia F-40 was discontinued in 1963 and reintroduced as Bluegrass F-40 in 1972 (1973 marketing material).



Hans doesn't mention a change to Mahogany back and sides before 1977.

The 1981 catalog still shows the maple F-40 but with the remark "no longer available". Officially it looks like she was discontinued in 1983 according to Gruhn and only reintroduced again as Valencia in 1998 (but that was the custom shop version only and again maple back and sides.).

Only the Tacoma catalog in 2006 catalog shows for the first time the F-40 again and this time with mahogany back and sides.



The February 1, 2007 price list still shows her as "new":



And this stayed till the last NH price list in February 2014:






Ralf

 

[chazmo]

So, maybe Tacoma it turned into mahogany then, Ralf. Yeah, I was guessing it wasn't during the bible's timeframe.

Thanks for the sleuthing!

 

[SFIV1967]

So, maybe Tacoma it turned into mahogany then,

Well, not maybe but definitely as it looks according the catalogs and price lists. There is a reason they call it "new" in the Feb 1, 2007 price list.

Ralf

 

[Boomstick]

I was watching a Youtube video reviewing a new F-40 that came out in the early 2010s maybe 2013 at the latest and it was still the classic smaller maple body model. They may have had a mahogany back and sides version too, that I am not sure

 

[chazmo]

I was watching a Youtube video reviewing a new F-40 that came out in the early 2010s maybe 2013 at the latest and it was still the classic smaller maple body model. They may have had a mahogany back and sides version too, that I am not sure

Are you sure about the year, Boomer?

 

[Boomstick]

Are you sure about the year, Boomer?

Like I said it was an early 2010s Guild promo video when it posted, that part I am sure of or no later than 2013. That’s just how my brain works

 

[chazmo]

Like I said it was an early 2010s Guild promo video when it posted, that part I am sure of or no later than 2013. That’s just how my brain works

Boomer, Maybe it was the F-47(M) that you're thinking of... ?? I can't find anything but a mahogany-backed F-40 Valencia in the New Hartford brochures that I checked (2009 - 2013). Or, maybe it was a GSR that I don't remember?

 

[Rayk]

So since this is touched on , I think ? lol
When did the F40 desolve into the GA design ? I know that there’s a Tacoma and NH i think and they were hogs .
Another question is the F47 are the Taylor designed GA’s dread boby depth but the F40’s ran more off the OM/OOO Body depth which I prefer. do when and why ?

Edit I have retract the NH refrance but I know Tacoma had it .

 

[Boomstick]

Boomer, Maybe it was the F-47(M) that you're thinking of... ?? I can't find anything but a mahogany-backed F-40 Valencia in the New Hartford brochures that I checked (2009 - 2013). Or, maybe it was a GSR that I don't remember?

It may have been posted late but it was definitely a F-40

 

[SFIV1967]

It may have been posted late but it was definitely a F-40

The only older pre-Tacoma video I'm aware off is the 2002 promo video but it doesn't show a F-40 as no F-40 was made in Corona (only Nashville made the Maple Valencia I believe). And after Nashville (around 2005) no F-40 Maple was built that I'm aware of, not even as GSR in Tacoma or NH. Maybe you could check and post a link to that video you saw, would be interesting.

Ralf

 

[chazmo]

It may have been posted late but it was definitely a F-40

Most interesting, Boomer. If you ever come across what you saw, post up!

When did the F40 desolve into the GA design

Ray, I'm not sure what you're asking, but the guitar was (basically) the same shape its entire life except when CMG took over (2014+)... The big (huge) design change in this model is the archie maple back vs. solid mahogany of recent years.

 

[SFIV1967]

Ray, I'm not sure what you're asking, but the guitar was (basically) the same shape its entire life except when CMG took over (2014+)...

Oh no, not that easy! Compare the body shapes! The 70's style was very different on the lower bout shape (mini jumbo).

1950's~1963 vs. 1972~1983 vs. 2006~2014:



Ralf

 

[chazmo]

Oh no, not that easy! Compare the body shapes! The 70's style was very different on the lower bout shape.

1950's/1960's vs 1973~1983 vs. 2007~2014:



Ralf

Excellent, Ralf. I sit corrected.

But of these changes, mostly the flat vs. round-bottom, is any of these more of a "grand auditorium" shape than any other? But, probably Ray was asking about that '73-'83 time period.

 

[Rich Cohen]

The Valencia F-40 was discontinued in 1963 and reintroduced as Bluegrass F-40 in 1973.



Hans doesn't mention a change to Mahogany back and sides before 1977.

The 1981 catalog still shows the maple F-40 but with the remark "no longer available". Officially it looks like she was discontinued in 1983 according to Gruhn and only reintroduced again as Valencia in 1998 (but that was the custom shop version only and again maple back and sides.).

Only the Tacoma catalog in 2006 catalog shows for the first time the F-40 again and this time with mahogany back and sides.



The February 1, 2007 price list still shows her as "new":



And this stayed till the last NH price list in February 2014:






Ralf

A small correction, and Hans has confirmed it. My F-40 maple arched back was made in 1972. Thus, that should be the year Guild switched back the F-40 to the original design; before, of course it was changed yet again.

 

[SFIV1967]

A small correction, and Hans has confirmed it. My F-40 maple arched back was made in 1972. Thus, that should be the year Guild switched back the F-40 to the original design; before, of course it was changed yet again.

But your one was already the 1973 small jumbo style I believe, so it looks like they made the first in 1972 already. But only the 1973 sheets showed her as "back" in line.

Ralf

 

[chazmo]

1973 small jumbo style, so it looks like they made the first in 1972 already.

Probably a brand new set of moulds for the body in Westerly.

 

[Rich Cohen]

But your one was already the 1973 small jumbo style I believe, so it looks like they made the first in 1972 already. But only the 1973 sheets showed her as "back" in line.

Ralf

The serial number is 67028 which according to Hans' book makes it solidly in 1972. In an email to me Hans confirmed the date.

 

[chazmo]

The serial number is 67028 which according to Hans' book makes it solidly in 1972. In an email to me Hans confirmed the date.

I think @SFIV1967 was agreeing with you, Rich. Yours may certainly have been among the first to get cranked out by Westerly, I suppose.

 

[Rich Cohen]

I think @SFIV1967 was agreeing with you, Rich. Yours may certainly have been among the first to get cranked out by Westerly, I suppose.

Chazmo,
I think you're right. I guess I was being too literal. Apologies if anyone was offended.
I played an original song on the F-40 last night at a local mic. It has a good pup. It sounded great. The guitar is powerfully sounding. Tom Jacobs did a good job, except for the pickguard re-glue which didn't last very long. I recently bought a replacement guard (Guild vintage) from Hans Moust, and had my local luthier install it. It looks great.