What is it about the G string?

[chicagowineguy]

...and refrain from the easy jokes! Just wondering if anyone else shares my problem with the G being the string that will snap when tuning back up. We just did a Joni song (Black Crow) at school, which is in a rather beautiful but strange Bb tuning, and twice in one week, when tuning back up, POP. Over the years, with all my guitars, it's always the G. Why? Physics? Concentrated tension anomaly at that point? I realize that in the grand scheme of things this is no big deal, but it's annoying, and I'm curious if anyone can offer an explanation. Bye now!

 

[jazzmang]

You know I had the same issue for so long!
I had my luthier do a good setup, cut me a new nut (where most of my g strings would break, no jokes) and a new saddle. Since then (and switching to coated strings) I have only had like 2 strings break in over a year!

Just my 2 cents.

 

[cjd-player]

The G string has the highest tension on the core wire.

For a set of D'Addario or Elixir lights in standard tuning:

E - 0.012 inch diameter - 23.3 pounds tension when at pitch on a 25-1/2 inch scale
B - 0.016 diameter - 23.3 pounds
G - 0.024 diameter - 0.012 diameter core wire - 30.2 pounds
D - 0.032 diameter - 0.015 diameter core wire - 30.5 pounds
A - 0.042 diameter - 0.016 diameter core wire - 29.9 pounds
E - 0.053 diameter - 0.017 diameter core wire - 29.2 pounds

The D string has slightly higher overall tension, but the core wire is larger. So the pounds per square inch on the D string core is lower than for the G string.

Even if nothing is wrong with the nut or saddle the strings flex there when tuning and untuning, so a bit of metal fatigue happens to the core wire. The fatigue causes microscopic cracks in the metal (actually on an atomic scale, not really visible), and that is where they will often break. The higher the tension, the easier for a fatigue crack to break the string. Hard strumming also fatigues them at these points, particularly at the saddle. Obviously, the other bad place for fatigue is at the tuning peg if you change tunings a lot.

 

[TonyT]

The G string has the highest tension on the core wire.

For a set of D'Addario or Elixir lights in standard tuning:

E - 0.012 inch diameter - 23.3 pounds tension when at pitch on a 25-1/2 inch scale
B - 0.016 diameter - 23.3 pounds
G - 0.024 diameter - 0.012 diameter core wire - 30.2 pounds
D - 0.032 diameter - 0.015 diameter core wire - 30.5 pounds
A - 0.042 diameter - 0.016 diameter core wire - 29.9 pounds
E - 0.053 diameter - 0.017 diameter core wire - 29.2 pounds

The D string has slightly higher overall tension, but the core wire is larger. So the pounds per square inch on the D string core is lower than for the G string.

Even if nothing is wrong with the nut or saddle the strings flex there when tuning and untuning, so a bit of metal fatigue happens to the core wire. The fatigue causes microscopic cracks in the metal (actually on an atomic scale, not really visible), and that is where they will often break. The higher the tension, the easier for a fatigue crack to break the string. Hard strumming also fatigues them at these points, particularly the saddle. Obviously, the other bad place for fatigue is at the tuning peg if you change tunings a lot.

That's what I was gonna say.

 

[cjd-player]

That's what I was gonna say.

Oops.

Sorry.

 

[fab467]

The G string has the highest tension on the core wire.

For a set of D'Addario or Elixir lights in standard tuning:

E - 0.012 inch diameter - 23.3 pounds tension when at pitch on a 25-1/2 inch scale
B - 0.016 diameter - 23.3 pounds
G - 0.024 diameter - 0.012 diameter core wire - 30.2 pounds
D - 0.032 diameter - 0.015 diameter core wire - 30.5 pounds
A - 0.042 diameter - 0.016 diameter core wire - 29.9 pounds
E - 0.053 diameter - 0.017 diameter core wire - 29.2 pounds

The D string has slightly higher overall tension, but the core wire is larger. So the pounds per square inch on the D string core is lower than for the G string.

Even if nothing is wrong with the nut or saddle the strings flex there when tuning and untuning, so a bit of metal fatigue happens to the core wire. The fatigue causes microscopic cracks in the metal (actually on an atomic scale, not really visible), and that is where they will often break. The higher the tension, the easier for a fatigue crack to break the string. Hard strumming also fatigues them at these points, particularly the saddle. Obviously, the other bad place for fatigue is at the tuning peg if you change tunings a lot.

A scientific explanation. Impressive...

 

[chicagowineguy]

I have received my explanation!

 

[West R Lee]

The G string has the highest tension on the core wire.

For a set of D'Addario or Elixir lights in standard tuning:

E - 0.012 inch diameter - 23.3 pounds tension when at pitch on a 25-1/2 inch scale
B - 0.016 diameter - 23.3 pounds
G - 0.024 diameter - 0.012 diameter core wire - 30.2 pounds
D - 0.032 diameter - 0.015 diameter core wire - 30.5 pounds
A - 0.042 diameter - 0.016 diameter core wire - 29.9 pounds
E - 0.053 diameter - 0.017 diameter core wire - 29.2 pounds

The D string has slightly higher overall tension, but the core wire is larger. So the pounds per square inch on the D string core is lower than for the G string.

Even if nothing is wrong with the nut or saddle the strings flex there when tuning and untuning, so a bit of metal fatigue happens to the core wire. The fatigue causes microscopic cracks in the metal (actually on an atomic scale, not really visible), and that is where they will often break. The higher the tension, the easier for a fatigue crack to break the string. Hard strumming also fatigues them at these points, particularly at the saddle. Obviously, the other bad place for fatigue is at the tuning peg if you change tunings a lot.

CJD,

And this is a serious question, I'm not trying to sound like a smart o$$. Does that literally translate to 166.4 pounds of direct pull on the neck? :shock: :?:
And that's with what.....lights? I don't think I'll be stringing any of mine with heavy gauge strings.

West

 

[jazzmang]

Yeah, I've often heard that forces on guitars necks can often exceed 150 lbs of pull!

No wonder they may need neck resets after so many years, especially if neglected.

 

[West R Lee]

Any idea how much a set of heavy gauge strings might pull?

West

 

[dane]

Does that literally translate to 166.4 pounds of direct pull on the neck? :shock: :?:
And that's with what.....lights? I don't think I'll be stringing any of mine with heavy gauge strings. West

West,
Yep, that’s the way I understand it. Then think about your JF30 12. Makes a good argument on why so many of us tune down a full step on our twelve’s. That’s a lot of pressure on the neck and bridge.

 

[jazzmang]

http://store.daddario.com/category/1448 ... eavy_14-59

add them up, comes to 217 lbs!!!

 

[West R Lee]

An incredible amount of pressure to keep on a piece of wood 24/7 for 20 or 30 years.

West

 

[West R Lee]

Does that literally translate to 166.4 pounds of direct pull on the neck? :shock: :?:
And that's with what.....lights? I don't think I'll be stringing any of mine with heavy gauge strings. West

West,
Yep, that’s the way I understand it. Then think about your JF30 12. Makes a good argument on why so many of us tune down a full step on our twelve’s. That’s a lot of pressure on the neck and bridge.

I was just making a point. I've preached for a long time that though it's a matter of personal preference, light gauge strings will extend the life of an acoustic between repairs, be it a neck reset, or a reglue of the bridge, or a top crack or soundhole cracks, or a sunken top, almost all are due to excess string tension or improper humidification, if not being kicked around or something. I'd guess too much string tension for too long in the majority or cases.

If I were a performer, I might consider it, and if I could, I'd use lights and amplify if I needed a bunch more sound. Some guys have been using heavy or mediums for years and never had a problem, I don't want to take the chance and don't need a bunch of punch, besides, light gauge strings are easier to fingerpick.

West

 

[cjd-player]

If you go the "String Tension Guide" under "Support" on the D'Addario site, you can calculate the tension for any strings, even mixed sets. Somebody used to have a little on-line application where you typed in the string gages and it calculated the tension. I thought it was D'Addario, but it was many years ago, and they don't have it now. Maybe another manufacturer has one.

Yea, West, that is a lot of tension. If you believe Bob Taylor's argument: If the neck angle is perfect, then the string tension is not an issue. The string force pulls right through the neck and they don't try to fold the guitar in half. With a set (dovetail joint) neck, the manufacturer has only one chance to get it right. Once the dovetail joint is cut, that's it. They can't know what the angle will be until it's glued on and the guitar is strung up. If the angle is perfect, the guitar will last a long, long time. If the angle is off, then the guitar will eventually need a neck reset. The more the angle is off, the sooner the reset because the strings are trying to fold the guitar in half.

 

[dane]

I was just making a point. I've preached for a long time that though it's a matter of personal preference, light gauge strings will extend the life of an acoustic between repairs, be it a neck reset, or a reglue of the bridge, or a top crack or soundhole cracks, or a sunken top, almost all are due to excess string tension or improper humidification, if not being kicked around or something. I'd guess too much string tension for too long in the majority or cases.

If I were a performer, I might consider it, and if I could, I'd use lights and amplify if I needed a bunch more sound. Some guys have been using heavy or mediums for years and never had a problem, I don't want to take the chance and don't need a bunch of punch, besides, light gauge strings are easier to fingerpick. West

I totally agree with you. And sadly admit that I completely ruined my first twelve string guitar long ago out of ignorance. A lesson learned hard is a lesson learned well.

 

[West R Lee]

I was just making a point. I've preached for a long time that though it's a matter of personal preference, light gauge strings will extend the life of an acoustic between repairs, be it a neck reset, or a reglue of the bridge, or a top crack or soundhole cracks, or a sunken top, almost all are due to excess string tension or improper humidification, if not being kicked around or something. I'd guess too much string tension for too long in the majority or cases.

If I were a performer, I might consider it, and if I could, I'd use lights and amplify if I needed a bunch more sound. Some guys have been using heavy or mediums for years and never had a problem, I don't want to take the chance and don't need a bunch of punch, besides, light gauge strings are easier to fingerpick. West

I totally agree with you. And sadly admit that I completely ruined my first twelve string guitar long ago out of ignorance. A lesson learned hard is a lesson learned well.

I guess I was about 20 when I got my first Guild. We'd do these weekend campouts at a lake outside of Austin. Middle of summer temps would run 100 or so. If we'd leave camp, I'd just lock her in the trunk.....what did I know. Well you guessed it, the bridge lifted about 1/16", but she's never been in another trunk, and the bridge hasn't moved since. You're right, we live and learn.

West

 

[taabru45]

West, I was talking to someone once, and mentioned that one of my goals was to be less stupid when I die...a little stupid goes a long way..In fact I remember a little wooden engraved sign in our cottage, when I was a kid I didn't understand it but was told "You will!"....and I do...It had the face of an old man, engraved at the side, and it said..'Vee get too soon olt...and too late shmat.' Hmmmm...too true. :wink: Steffan

 

[West R Lee]

:lol: And we'll be there a long time brother!

West

 

[JerryR]

...and refrain from the easy jokes! Just wondering if anyone else shares my problem with the G being the string that will snap when tuning back up.

Elixir Yes, D'Addario No - but when playing not tuning