What is being said about Pilots?

[fronobulax]

eBay ad here.

Pictures show a bass that reminds me of Grot's 1986 B-602. P and J style PUs. Three control knobs in a straight line. Control cavity cover is either clear or missing but a battery is clearly visible so active electronics. Headstock is that angular pointy shape like on Grot's 1983 SB-666. Cake knife? Serial may be BH100281 which would make it a SB-604 from 1984. (I'm giving all this detail so the post makes sense after the eBay listing expires).

Needs a little work, but it is one of a few remaining Pilot basses that exist prior to the machine made Fender era.

Aren't all Pilots pre-Fender? What might the seller mean by "machine made Fender era"? Is there a belief that Guild didn't use machines?

I have often found that right after I say someone else doesn't know what they are talking about, I learn something new. So I am reluctant to say the seller has no idea what s/he is talking about but the quote does suggest some ignorance on his/her or my part concerning the history of Guild and Pilots. Anybody have any ideas?

Thanks.

 

[jte]

it's just E-Bay seller stupidity. FMIC didn't make big changes in Guild production so there's no such thing as "...machine made Fender era". I kind of lost track of Pilot production, but it doesn't seem that they were making any in '95, let alone afterwards. Thing is that lots of people assume the "Fender era" started when they closed Westerly and moved production to Corona, despite the fact being that FMIC bought Guild in '95, not 2001.

That headstock was available in the mid to late '80s, and it looks like the Mueller bridge, not the later Schaller roller bridge. Overall it seems like a typical mid to late '80s Pilot. active EMG P/J pickups, passive V/V/T, one of several headstocks, and the price at $200 is cheap for a quality US made bass with (in my experience) very stable necks. But we know how Guilds are frequently under-valued on the market compared to their quality. Other than the headstock, it looks very much like my Electric Blue Pilot.

John

 

[dlenaghan]

My present understanding is that any instrument made after 1978-9 is a product of CNC technology, which apparently debuted with the manufacture of the Peavey T-40 (and other instruments of that series, I would presume). I could very well be wrong on this but it's a point I've seen repeated on the Peavey (and T-40 forums especially) threads.

Sounds just like rhetoric (eg salesmanship, blowing smoke) to me.
Impress the viewer, move the item.

Though I keep hearing wonderful things about Pilots.. might have to play one one of these days. Good thing I'll be able to snag it for cheap! (Almost makes me feel bad.. is it better to be a crafter of an overpriced, hype-inflated instrument, or the maker of a fine, innovative piece of musical history that gets pawnshopped due to lack of brand recognition?)

 

[fronobulax]

If a post in Bass veers, does anyone else read it?

Interesting point about CNC. I'm still running a Peavey amp from 1973 or so but never paid any attention to the guitars so the fact that the machinery makes a difference to some people is new to me. Does make you wonder when Guild adopted CNC for solid bodies made in Westerly? Hans?

As for Pilots they are generally highly regarded and underrated in the marketplace. The folks who sing the praises of Pilots, notably krysh and The Guilds of Grot with some help from twocorgis have convinced me that I really should have one. However the physical pain and effort for me to play a 34" scale has been enough to keep my money in my wallet.

 

[bassmyf]

However the physical pain and effort for me to play a 34" scale has been enough to keep my money in my wallet.

If you ever want to really double your misery, I`ll sell you my pilot fretless..

 

[fronobulax]

However the physical pain and effort for me to play a 34" scale has been enough to keep my money in my wallet.

If you ever want to really double your misery, I`ll sell you my pilot fretless..

*snicker*

I probably should not admit how much time I actually have to spend watching my left hand while playing...

 

[hideglue]

Does make you wonder when Guild adopted CNC for solid bodies made in Westerly? Hans?

Guild never used CNC for Pilots. It was shortly after the Pilot's demise that FMIC brought Westerly its first CNC (along w/ much head-scratching)

 

[twocorgis]

As for Pilots they are generally highly regarded and underrated in the marketplace. The folks who sing the praises of Pilots, notably krysh and The Guilds of Grot with some help from twocorgis have convinced me that I really should have one. However the physical pain and effort for me to play a 34" scale has been enough to keep my money in my wallet.

Frono, for that kind of money you can't go wrong, and as for the scale, how do you feel about fender P-Basses? Up until I got the SF1 bass it was all I ever knew, and my hands aren't particularly large. Heck, back in my early days, I thought short scale basses were for girly-men. :lol:

Once I got the B4CE-F, the SF1 bass, and the B50 I learned to never say never. :wink:

 

[fronobulax]

Does make you wonder when Guild adopted CNC for solid bodies made in Westerly? Hans?

Guild never used CNC for Pilots. It was shortly after the Pilot's demise that FMIC brought Westerly its first CNC (along w/ much head-scratching)

Thanks. That pretty much means the eBay seller mentioned in the first post has no idea what s/he is talking about.

 

[fronobulax]

As for Pilots they are generally highly regarded and underrated in the marketplace. The folks who sing the praises of Pilots, notably krysh and The Guilds of Grot with some help from twocorgis have convinced me that I really should have one. However the physical pain and effort for me to play a 34" scale has been enough to keep my money in my wallet.

Frono, for that kind of money you can't go wrong, and as for the scale, how do you feel about fender P-Basses? Up until I got the SF1 bass it was all I ever knew, and my hands aren't particularly large. Heck, back in my early days, I thought short scale basses were for girly-men. :lol:

Once I got the B4CE-F, the SF1 bass, and the B50 I learned to never say never. :wink:

In the beginning when I started messing with bass because the coolness factor was so much more than that of tuba, I know I played a Fender Jazz bass and a green Starfire. I bought a no-name Japanese bass that was probably short scale and replaced it with the JS-II. I clearly remember selecting a Guild because it was not a Fender although I wish I could recall why I ended up with a JS and not a Starfire. Probably a solid body coolness factor. I had a suite mate in college who had a Fender Precision. We'd play each others basses but neither of us felt compelled to switch. Fast forward 30 years and my left hand consistently cramps up after playing a friend's 34" scale Warwick bass. That is probably the result of small hands and bad left hand technique but I can get away with bad technique on the shorter scale so I do.

 

[jte]

Pilots were such a breath of fresh air when they came out. Fender just wasn't doing what people wanted. We had a lot of folks wanting us to put EMG's and heavier bridges on their Jazz and Precision basses (along with putting a Jazz PUP into the bridge of a Precision) and Fender didn't have anything like that. Guild came out with a bass that felt like a very good Jazz bass, had the feature people wanted, and looked familiar without being too much like a Jazz nor too weird looking. Add in the very stable neck Guild has and a reasonable price for a US-made instrument with a real life-time warranty, and you had a winner. Our little store sold a LOT of Pilots in a pretty conservative market (people who saw my Music Man amplifier asked "where'd the fake Fender come from?").

In my experience as a teacher since '78, most of the problems people have with a 34" scale bass comes to poor technique, as Frono asserts.

John

 

[twocorgis]

Pilots were such a breath of fresh air when they came out. Fender just wasn't doing what people wanted. We had a lot of folks wanting us to put EMG's and heavier bridges on their Jazz and Precision basses (along with putting a Jazz PUP into the bridge of a Precision) and Fender didn't have anything like that.

That's funny John, because back around the same time I was tiring of the limited sounds I could get out of my '72 Precision (that I still own), and was convinced by a bunch of people that I needed to install an EMG pup, which I did. I was happy with the improvement and still am. I just wish I hadn't lost the original in a subsequent move, and would give just about anything to have it back. Not that I'd ever use it again, but in case I wanted to restore it to its original state.

Oh well; I don't plan on ever selling it anyway. :roll:

 

[fronobulax]

In my experience as a teacher since '78, most of the problems people have with a 34" scale bass comes to poor technique, as Frono asserts.

John

I kind of wish you didn't confirm that for me. Now I need to find someone who can undo almost 40 years of bad habits. When I was in school, typing was pretty much only offered to people who expected to go from high school to a clerical position and that wasn't me. Fast forward a few years and as a professional writing software I realized I should probably learn how to touch type. I found a typing tutor program and diligently worked through the lessons and exercises at home. Then I would go into work the next day and be forced to choose between reinforcing the typing lessons and actually getting work done. I still type with two fingers and eyes on the keyboard. It might be easier with bass since bass playing is avocational for me.

 

[jte]

I kind of wish you didn't confirm that for me. Now I need to find someone who can undo almost 40 years of bad habits. When I was in school, typing was pretty much only offered to people who expected to go from high school to a clerical position and that wasn't me. Fast forward a few years and as a professional writing software I realized I should probably learn how to touch type. I found a typing tutor program and diligently worked through the lessons and exercises at home. Then I would go into work the next day and be forced to choose between reinforcing the typing lessons and actually getting work done. I still type with two fingers and eyes on the keyboard. It might be easier with bass since bass playing is avocational for me.

Well, I took typing in high-school for two reasons... A), I knew that I'd have to type papers in college and my handwriting was putrid, and B) generally only girls took typing so I'd be the only guy in a class of 25 girls. The first one worked out OK, but they put all of the guys who had the second idea into the same typing class...

Main thing about technique is keeping your hand down and not gripping the bass like a baseball bat. If it's a stretching problem go ahead and use "string-bass" fingering- instead of guitar fingering with one finger per fret, only use three fingers, and pivot off the thumb to reach up. Carol Kaye has some EXCELLENT teaching material (even if her other statements are a little "out there", she's a great teacher).

John

 

[Default]

Being a newly minted member of the bass club, I'd appreciate whatever technique hints you could give me. I have one of those little Vox Ampplug things coming in and I'll (hopefully) be able to get in some playing time soon.

 

[hieronymous]

My advice for playing bass is to play along with music you like!

When I learned to type in 7th grade (in the early '80s) my approach was to type as fast as possible, not worrying nearly so much about accuracy. My friend made fun of me, but in hindsight I was right - word processors would soon become the norm so by the time I got to college I could type like a maniac and let the computer catch my mistakes!

 

[bluesypicky]

If a post in Bass veers, does anyone else read it?

Yes. I'm a veer hunter. As deep as it can be buried in the bass forum, I will smell it. :lol:
Oh and I'd like me a $200 Pilot. but that one scares me with the "little work needed"..... Plus there's a bid already and $50 shipping, so we 're in the $300's I'd guess so far.

 

[twocorgis]

If a post in Bass veers, does anyone else read it?

Yes. I'm a veer hunter. As deep as it can be buried in the bass forum, I will smell it. :lol:
Oh and I'd like me a $200 Pilot. but that one scares me with the "little work needed"..... Plus there's a bid already and $50 shipping, so we 're in the $300's I'd guess so far.

FWIW, I spent $350 shipped for mine on eBay, plus a $60 setup and feel that I got a great deal. I like it as much as my P-Bass, and like the neck better. Here it is in all its mapley goodness

The maple body is heavy just like my P-Bass so I feel right at home! The poplar ones are a lot lighter if that's important to you. Most under-appreciated and best bang for the buck US made basses out there by a long ways in my opinion. 8)

 

[bluesypicky]

Nice.... That's the finish I need right there to match my B-Bird! 8)
I don't really care about the weight... it's not like like I'm going to play it standing up 4 hours a day everyday.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Oooh! A Pilot Bass "flame war"!