What do you guys think this guitar is? (currently on eBay)

[bdeclee]

Sometimes I troll eBay looking for a custom Peregrine, and today I saw this ad for a Guild "1512" (I'm sure the seller means 512):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Guild-F-1512-12 ... 416c1f62e6

Look at the headstock though - not a G-shield... and I'm not sure about that abalone rosette. ???

Barbara

 

[SFIV1967]

Hi Barbara, the seller is completely correct with F-1512:
http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments ... 3814510821
This is the new naming of the GAD series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr1lJjT0V8o

Ralf

 

[bdeclee]

Wow, no kidding! I've been away from the Guild forum too long, I guess. Did not know that they were making GAD 12-strings. Thank you so much for the update!
Barbara

 

[Ravon]

Kinda like CL or ebay ads saying 'Gibson' but when you go to it it's an Gibson 'Epiphone' :roll: (at least Gibson doesn't compete with themselves, confuse the public and brand their overseas guitars 'Gibson'. Just sayin')

 

[learner]

My wife drives a Toyota van. I drive a Nissan pickup. Whether they're made in Japan or in the USA they're still a Toyota and a Nissan. Why would it be any different with guitars?

 

[SFIV1967]

My wife drives a Toyota van. I drive a Nissan pickup. Whether they're made in Japan or in the USA they're still a Toyota and a Nissan. Why would it be any different with guitars?

Right, and all use iPhones made in China and they are still called Apple! Amazing, isn't it ? :wink:
Ralf

 

[Ravon]

Yer all kidding, right? Going by those examples then why brand where a guitar is made at all then?

 

[SFIV1967]

Yer all kidding, right? Going by those examples then why brand where a guitar is made at all then?

I wonder where the computer is made that you write on... :wink:
But Guild is fair enough to clearly label either made in USA, or made in Mexico or made in China. So you have the choice as buyer in case you care to buy something that was completely made in your country. I don't think we have to start again and again the GAD line topic. You don't even have a choice to buy a smartphone made in USA or a computer made in USA or many other such things.
Ralf

 

[CA-35]

It clearly and absolutely makes a difference where something is made, and consumers DO have a choice to buy something made in the USA. Most choose not to, or are too lazy or ignorant (or both) to source it.

Billy Bob flies a crop duster by the seat of his pants and has no clue what IFR means. John Smith was a U.S. Naval aviator and after 20 years retired and now flies for American Airlines. They are both "pilots" right? Which one would you want at the controls???

Given a choice, I would never purchase a guitar made in China, regardless of the name that is stenciled to the headstock. :wink:

 

[fronobulax]

It clearly and absolutely makes a difference where something is made, and consumers DO have a choice to buy something made in the USA. Most choose not to, or are too lazy or ignorant (or both) to source it.

Billy Bob flies a crop duster by the seat of his pants and has no clue what IFR means. John Smith was a U.S. Naval aviator and after 20 years retired and now flies for American Airlines. They are both "pilots" right? Which one would you want at the controls???

Given a choice, I would never purchase a guitar made in China, regardless of the name that is stenciled to the headstock. :wink:

I'm thinking your analogy doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless you start out with the bias that only Americans know how to make guitars in a factory. Rather than restart a topic that rapidly becomes jingoistic very quickly I will pass on some comments the Guild folks made.

According to Guild, Chinese guitar factories are very good at meeting specifications. However they are also very good at cutting corners where there is no spec to meet. If the thickness of a brace is not specified, for example, the finished product will have the smallest and weakest possible brace. So from Guild's point of view there is constant monitoring to make sure the things that are specified are the things that make for a better guitar and the things that are not specified are not resulting in an inferior product.

Guild also notes the efforts to create a Chinese middle class and expressed an opinion that in three to five years there will be enough wage parity internationally that some manufacturing jobs now overseas will be cost effective to bring back to the US. So, maybe if we are patient, the country of origin will not longer be the political issue it currently is.

Comments attributed to Guild were heard at LMG III

 

[CA-35]

It clearly and absolutely makes a difference where something is made......
Given a choice, I would never purchase a guitar made in China, regardless of the name that is stenciled to the headstock. :wink:

I'm thinking your analogy doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless you start out with the bias that only Americans know how to make guitars in a factory.

OK Bad analogy. My point was all pilots are not created equal.

My bias is that Americans and Chinese both now how to manufacture guitars, however in my opinion, the American made guitar is superior and original. The Chinese haven't done anything original (not a copy) since that long dull boring wall.
If I want to buy a Ming dynasty vase then I look to China. If I am searching for an ultimate driving machine I look to Italy or Germany. Pastries; France, Porcelain figurines; Holland.

Whats next a Chinese copy of a Stradivarius? :shock:

 

[fronobulax]

My bias is that Americans and Chinese both now how to manufacture guitars, however in my opinion, the American made guitar is superior and original. The Chinese haven't done anything original (not a copy) since that long dull boring wall.

That last comment almost got you edited. Put the smiley face in next time, OK? :wink:

As for the former, my experience has been that most people who make that claim really cannot justify it in terms of the country of origin but can justify it in terms of the sale price of a new guitar. In other words a $2,000 guitar is almost always going to be superior to a $1,000 guitar regardless of which one was made where.

As for originality, Guild actually supports your point. The Chinese factories do exactly what they are told to do and whatever is cheapest for them if they are not told. I think we would agree that anything original on a Chinese Guild originated in the US. But if originality is such a great virtue with guitars then why is Guild's patented neck block system no longer being used? I can't honestly think of a situation where originality is even a factor in choosing and buying a guitar unless I am looking at an electric body shape for an 80's revival band or a specific sound where originality and innovation are in the pickup selection, design and associated electronics.

 

[CA-35]

My friend Frono I think we are on different pages.

My point is not Americans versus the world. My point is that some people make things better than others. My particular "problem" with Chinese products is the quality of the end product. Just because an American company owns a manufacturing plant in China does not insure that the product is going to be the same as the product made in the States, and here is my reasoning; production methods will be dictated by the bottom line profit, core materials will not be the same, emphasis on quantity over quality, and more than anything is the intent. The intent of a Chinese factory, regardless of ownership, is profit. You can't tell me Fender manufactures there because of the weather, or the friendly people. Fender manufactures there because it is less expensive than here. Are all the components that make up a guitar shipped by Fender from the US to China? I doubt it, in fact I know they don't. Those "other" materials are sourced and purchased or manufactured in China and that's the weak link, in my humble and completely worthless opinion.

 

[fronobulax]

First, I seem to recall that the woods and parts made elsewhere were at least sourced by American buyers so in the specific case of Chinese made Guilds I don't think the quality of the raw material is a factor as much as the cost of it is a factor. Wood may be coming from the same source with top grades being shipped to New Hartford and lesser grades being shipped to China. The decision to do that is because one guitar is to be sold at a lower price point than the other and not because of where the guitar is made.

Fender is trying to make a profit and they are trying to make a product that they can stand behind in terms of quality and sell at a particular price point. Given price and quality points they make some guitars in China, some in Mexico and some in the U.S.

We are on different pages. I am trying desperately to keep this focused on guitars. Your generalizations about Chinese products, profits and motivations may, or may not, be true, but they are general enough to belong on a political board and not on this Guild board. I'm trying to throw you (and this thread) a lifeline but if there is nothing to say that is specific about guitars made in China then perhaps it is as good a time as any to move on. :wink:

 

[CA-35]

Wood may be coming from the same source with top grades being shipped to New Hartford and lesser grades being shipped to China. The decision to do that is because one guitar is to be sold at a lower price point than the other and not because of where the guitar is made.
We are on different pages. I am trying desperately to keep this focused on guitars. Your generalizations about Chinese products, profits and motivations may, or may not, be true, but they are general enough to belong on a political board and not on this Guild board.

My comments may or may not be general. So to be specific to Guilds being manufactured in China I feel your statement above about the decisions made to sell guitars at a lower price point enforces my beliefs; Only by making it in CHINA can they reach those price points. Fender is concerned about market share so they produce a less expensive model abroad in hopes of reaching the guy who cannot afford a a USA made Guild. By doing so, they increase market share, and by the way, make a longer profit on those guitars. It's business Frono, I get it, but it cheapens the brand. It is more than just the lesser grade of wood. It's the adhesives, the metals, and the plastics that are used in the process of making those guitars.

Lets just agree to disagree.

 

[valleyguy]

Are not all dreadnaughts a copy of Martin's D28? Is copying so bad? It is, after all, the sincerest form of flattery.