Talking To My Band

[crank]

Since we got serious, somewhat, and decided to work up songs and play gigs rather than just get together and jam I find myself in the role of bandleader and dynamics cop.

We played a party last Saturday and things went fairly well. We record stuff and our guys were talking via emails about how good it sounded. All I can hear is the room for improvement and what we are doing wrong. Hey there is a lot of good there but I hear the rhythm guitar overplaying, I hear him and the keys fighting for the same sonic space, I hear the mix should be more even, I hear guys singing harmony that are carrying notes beyond the lead singer's or coming in randomly or singing to loud and not blending in.

I don't want to let it go because we can be a lot better. I don't want to piss everyone off.

Just venting here a bit trying to get my thoughts together before our next jam Monday evening.

 

[chazmo]

My belief, working with semi- and fully-professional classical musicians is don't compromise, Marc. You present your feedback as constructive and if someone takes it badly, that's too bad. I mean, don't be a turd, but be level and strong in your feedback to the individuals and present your feelings as either grounds for discussion or simple feedback. If it's a group thing like balance, talk to the group. Else, do it individually on a break or something.

I do this all the time in my life in all aspects. Compromise is great for dealing with social issues, etc. But not when dealing with trying to be at the top of your game.

The truth is that anybody who's serious about their music should be able to hear what other peers have to say and take it (or object) rationally. IMO, that's how a group improves.

 

[Rocky]

Be ready to offer suggestions. If you hear clashing between the keys and rhythm, you can always offer up, "Hey, if you play your E chord at the seventh fret rather than open, it covers more space, or if you just hit the top three notes of the chord, you can hear both instruments better."

Be ready and willing to hear some suggestions as well. How you respond to them may well effect how the others respond to yours.

 

[crank]

You bring up some good points Charlie. I do think some issues should be broached publicly and perhaps I should have a private conversation with our rhythm guitar player. His abilities are somewhat limited but what I really need him to do is just play less.

Rocky, our keyboard player is really good and has perfect pitch. However he has never played in a band before. And due to our rhythm guitarists limited skills ( He's great at playing a smooth steady rhythm but not much else) It's going to be up to him to find chord inversions and counterpoint riffs. He is starting to get it.

I have a whole page of notes I just have to be careful strike the right note when relating them!

 

[Rocky]

There's definitely a learning curve to a keyboard player used to playing solo. Just like playing a guitar by yourself, you want to cover as much sonic territory as possible I find a lot of the fun of ensemble playing is fitting the parts together. Hopefully they look at it the same way.

 

[DougH]

Less IS More

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Oh God help you! I did that for 10 years with my band! It's a no win situation!

Good luck!

 

[Stuball48]

While being the head basketball and baseball coach for 20 years, you had to deal with similar issues about "Team Play" being the key to success, I found when I had to deal with things like selfishness and jealousy. What I discovered that worked best for me was to find a couple good things (all had good things or would not have been in the team) and talk about those before I "suggested" they needed to improve in a certain area.

 

[GGJaguar]

The one time I tried to have a "talk with the band" I was kicked out of the band. Oh well.

 

[jp]

I've found that it wholly depends on the personalities of the band, and every band dynamic is different. Each person in a group is in it for different reasons, which determines the effort each person puts in. I'm not going to say don't give it a try, but if you tactfully offer criticism, and the effort doesn't follow, don't let it eat you up.

My experience after working with a lot of different bands has taught me that it's a lot like people in relationships. After putting in the work, you're not going to be able to change them if you have higher expectations beyond the best possible results.

 

[chazmo]

The one time I tried to have a "talk with the band" I was kicked out of the band. Oh well.

Well, I'd argue that was for the best, GG. But, of course, only you can be the judge of that.

 

[GGJaguar]

Well, I'd argue that was for the best, GG. But, of course, only you can be the judge of that.

Yeah, the funny thing is they didn't even tell me right then and there. They simply moved on without me. So yeah, given that kind of treatment (disrespect?) I agree that it was for the best.

 

[Roland]

This is an interesting discussion for me as I always fear something like this. I have been playing with a bunch of friends on the weekends for a few years. We just get together and play country/bluegrass. Just an old fashioned country jam. This summer we've fallen into a few informal gigs at some fundraisers and festivals, "just for fun." We have another one this weekend. They are fun. I for one am happy with how it is going without any help from anyone, so far so good. I think if someone tried to take over and pushed too hard to turn it into anything else and out of the blue started telling me what to do and what not to do, I would have to leave. I didn't get into it for that.

 

[crank]

There's definitely a learning curve to a keyboard player used to playing solo. Just like playing a guitar by yourself, you want to cover as much sonic territory as possible I find a lot of the fun of ensemble playing is fitting the parts together. Hopefully they look at it the same way.

For guitar pickers as well. I've played with a few who just didn't get the difference. Yes we all are actually enjoying the process of working things out over jsut jamming. Probably because we just jammed for 5 + years with only a few gigs

Oh God help you! I did that for 10 years with my band! It's a no win situation!

Good luck!

Lol. Don't say that. No one is taking this too seriously. We're good, I just want to be really good!

 

[crank]

Less IS More

By definition less is not more, however, it is better!

The one time I tried to have a "talk with the band" I was kicked out of the band. Oh well.

Agree you're better off. They ain't kicking me out, It's my PA. 'Sides I'm not taking it super seriously.

I've found that it wholly depends on the personalities of the band, and every band dynamic is different. Each person in a group is in it for different reasons, which determines the effort each person puts in. I'm not going to say don't give it a try, but if you tactfully offer criticism, and the effort doesn't follow, don't let it eat you up.

My experience after working with a lot of different bands has taught me that it's a lot like people in relationships. After putting in the work, you're not going to be able to change them if you have higher expectations beyond the best possible results.

A lot of this falls on our rhythm guitarist. Like I said, he has limited abilities. If I could only get him to play less I'd be happier with or sound.

 

[crank]

This is far from my first band. And interestingly, a few months ago I was jamming and played a pickup band gig with the other guitarist and the drummer from my first good band that played out and stuck together for over a decade and we sounded freaking great because everyone listened and left space and let the music breathe.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Since we got serious, somewhat, and decided to work up songs and play gigs rather than just get together and jam I find myself in the role of bandleader and dynamics cop.

We played a party last Saturday and things went fairly well. We record stuff and our guys were talking via emails about how good it sounded. All I can hear is the room for improvement and what we are doing wrong. Hey there is a lot of good there but I hear the rhythm guitar overplaying, I hear him and the keys fighting for the same sonic space, I hear the mix should be more even, I hear guys singing harmony that are carrying notes beyond the lead singer's or coming in randomly or singing to loud and not blending in.

I don't want to let it go because we can be a lot better. I don't want to piss everyone off.

Just venting here a bit trying to get my thoughts together before our next jam Monday evening.

Just try try try to keep it fun.

The best thing to do is abandon all delusions of grandeur. You've made it clear that while you might get gigs, this will never be a pro band. So coax people along, but don't demand the impossible. You can still aim at being a goof-time band. An you'll all be happier that way.

 

[lungimsam]

In our group on one song the music director threw out there (in a friendly tone) to the keys and rhythm guitar something like “hey, you guys are playing in same octave can one of you play the chords in a higher octave so we can hear you both better.”. It was no issue and they did it nicely.
I notice that by talking to both musicians on the fly, and at the same time, no one was singled out. It was just a nice group feeling.

 

[Prince of Darkness]

Less IS More

I've always liked that approach. Mainly because I've got plenty of less!