T100 vs Starfire

[AlohaJoe]

Just reading Darryl's previous thread on P90s for SFs raised an interesting question, but rather than veer, I thought I should start a new thread.

This is probably a bonehead question, but what's the difference between a SF2 and T100D? I know there are some cosmetic and pickup differences, but are the bodies the same size and depth? Is there a difference in the neck profile? I'm starting to look for one and inquiring minds want to know.

New Hope has both here: http://www.gbase.com/Powered/GearLi...4d99274b7be1&Make=guild&Grp=5&SearchBar=False and other than the pups (and date), they look the same to me.

 

[Default]

I've owned both, roughly the same vintage. My T-100 was a sunburst maple body with the Mickey Mouse pups. It had binding on the top only and a Guild Bigsby. Very bright sounding, as I recall. My Starfire also has two pickups, the mini-buckers, which are also bright for humbucking pickups. Mahogany body and binding top and back. Necks on both were slim and fast, and they both were great guitars. Played and felt the same from a comfort standpoint. Finish on the Slim Jim seemed to be a little thinner, but it's been a long time since I saw the T-100.

 

[dean]

From what I remember from Hans' book, the Starfire was essentially a T-100 design and some of the first Starfires were T-100s that had been painted with the red tint. I may be wrong on this, but the bodies on the T-100s were laminated maple while the Starfire bodies were laminated mahogany - at least the ones I've seen. I've had two T-100s (my second one is a project in progress) and one Starfire III - I totally refinished the SF III and it was all mahogany. I think the SF II had the Adjustomatic bridge while the T-100 had the rosewood bridge. I'm also not sure if the very early Starfires (1960-61) shared any of the same pickups with the T-100. So, other that a couple minor things and the available colors, I don't think there was much difference between the two at all.

As far as how they felt and played - both had virtually the same neck dimensions and feel. The bodies were identical in shape and size. The weight was different because the SF III had the Bigsby, but I think the mahogany body was a bit heavier, too. My T-100 had a single Mickey Mouse pickup, and it sounded awesome! It was responsive enough to get a wide range of sounds, but it didn't like to be pushed to its max. I thought is provided a wonderful set of jazz tones - not too bright, but articulate. The SF III had the small humbuckers, and I really didn't care for them that much at all (of course, each of us has that magic sound in our head, and what may be perfect for me is gruesome to the next guy and vice verse). The SF III could get a greater variety of sounds and was of course more powerful. I kept the T-100 next to my computer and would constantly pick it up and play it while surfing - plus I used it mainly through a '68 Princeton Reverb. It was easily the best guitar I have ever owned in terms of its sound, feel, weight and how it fit my body (and personality). Of course, I sold it a few years ago.

I've never looked for another Starfire, but I've never stopped looking for another T-100. Fortunately, I found one - a basket case that I am rebuilding. This time, I won't let it get away from me! As far as your search, I think the SF II and the T-100D are essentially the same animal except for (as you indicate) cosmetics, pickups, and minor hardware. As such, either would be an excellent guitar to own. Good luck with your search!

Dean

 

[AlohaJoe]

Thanks Dean and Default... that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

The more modern SF2s look to have the same humbucker as my Corona X150, which I like (although I love the P90 on my ES125) but sometimes I see a thinner HB on older ones.... I'm guessing that's the HB1. When I read posts about the 'mickey mouse' pickup, I've always assumed that's the one that looks like a cream colored P-90. Franz is the narrow chrome single-coil with a light colored face, right?

 

[Walter Broes]

Joe....I think it's about time you got Hans' book!

-HB-1's, are the larger humbuckers that came in in the late 60's
-the cream colored plastic covered 50's pickups that look like a Gibson P90 in cream are Franz pickups
-Mickey mouse pickups are very narrow single coils with alnico slug poles.

 

[Default]

Narrow chrome ring is the Mickey Mouse, the P-90 looking thing is the Franz.

 

[jp]

Joe,

It's also good to know that the Starfires reissued in the late 90s and manufactured on into the FMIC era are different beasts, although great guitars in their own right. The body style seems slightly wider at the waist, and overall the guitars are a little heavier with a thicker finish. Necks on older T-100s and SFs were a little thicker in the 50s, though not as thick as Gibsons, and generally slimmer from '64 to '70.

T-100s had all manner of pickups from Franz, DeArmond Dynasonics, and Mickey Mouse, to a few other Guild-assembled single coils. SFs generally had Dearmond Dynasonics and then the Guild minihumbuckers. Starting around maybe '70-'71 (if I recall) the T-100s had the larger Guild humbuckers called HB-1s. The newer style SF reissues had the Seymour Duncan-made HB-1 look-a-likes.

 

[Walter Broes]

It's also good to know that the Starfires reissued in the late 90s and manufactured on into the FMIC era are different beasts, although great guitars in their own right. The body style seems slightly wider at the waist,

They didn't exactly get prettier, don't you think? Ironically, the DeArmond Starfires do have the original silhoutte! (but that's where most of the similarity with the real thing ends, unfortunately...)

 

[AlohaJoe]

Joe....I think it's about time you got Hans' book!

Yes, I'm a bit overdue on that one

-HB-1's, are the larger humbuckers that came in in the late 60's
-the cream colored plastic covered 50's pickups that look like a Gibson P90 in cream are Franz pickups
-Mickey mouse pickups are very narrow single coils with alnico slug poles.

Looks like I had the pup thing backasswards... it's lucky for me I get to hang out here with folks who know their stuff! Thanks very much for the input!

My timing isn't too hot either. Just as I'm in the middle of the 'Princeton Project' I see a sweet blonde T-100 on CL at a very good price. Check out that link under eBay/CL/Gbase.... dang!

 

[Default]

There's always too much around when you don't have the cash.
Then again, you'll love the Princeton when it's done!

 

[guildzilla]

With me, no knocking the Westerly archtops. I had a transred SF III with the mahogany body, and it was fabulous. But I agree with JP about the thicker finish on the reissue SF's, and I also think a heavier build, compared to the 60's original versions. This also applies to the other archtops I've seen from Hoboken and Westerly.

IMO, the Hoboken archtops are the cat's meow. As others have said, the laminated maple SF I/II/III's and T-100's feel, look and sound acoustically very much alike. The difference being the pickups and other features.

With the mahogany SF I/II/III's, however, there is a difference in the tone, compared to the maple bodies - warmer and broader.

The obvious solution is to get one of each. An SF III with a mahogany body and a Bigsby. And a T-100 with a maple body, a pair of Franz pickups and a harp tailpiece. Or perhaps vice versa with the Bigsby. A happy camper is guaranteed.

 

[jp]

They didn't exactly get prettier, don't you think? Ironically, the DeArmond Starfires do have the original silhoutte! (but that's where most of the similarity with the real thing ends, unfortunately...)

I have to agree, but I think it's still a good-lookin' guitar. There's just something about the single florentine cutaway that just gets my pulse racing. Although they feel and play. . . well, differently. . . kinda Gibson-ish IMHO. I really do like the Starfire Specials, mostly for the semi-hollow aspect. I'd like to get one someday, just to play around.

The obvious solution is to get one of each. An SF III with a mahogany body and a Bigsby. And a T-100 with a maple body, a pair of Franz pickups and a harp tailpiece. Or perhaps vice versa with the Bigsby. A happy camper is guaranteed.

+1 :mrgreen:

 

[avagadro]

Hi I'm another "new to the forum/old guy poster". I bought my Guild new around 1976. it had a Starfire II hang tag. I wasn't very curious back then and it wasn't till years later that I checked its manufacture/serial number tag inside the guitar and found it to be a T 100. I guess even the pros that were selling them had a hard time keeping track of them. The salesperson that helped me was a good friend and later bought the same model in an antique green finish. he still calls it his "ugly green guitar". here's a photobucket link to a pick of my T100. "http://s735.photobucket.com/albums/ww354/avagadro10/?action=view&current=guild2.jpg" adios avagadro

 

[cc_mac]

Interesting thread. I've been thinking about Starfire II and III's lately as I am coming to the realization that the X170 of my dreams doesn't exist because it was never made in the configuration that I want and I don't know if I'll find and X-160 Rockabilly anytime soon.

I've read that at for a period in the 90s some of the Guild line was finished in nitro laquer and then they switched to a poly coating. Anyone know how this applies to Starfires and what the date change was?

 

[jp]

Interesting thread. I've been thinking about Starfire II and III's lately as I am coming to the realization that the X170 of my dreams doesn't exist because it was never made in the configuration that I want and I don't know if I'll find and X-160 Rockabilly anytime soon.

This is in my neck of the woods. I don't recall seeing them often in sunburst.

I've read that at for a period in the 90s some of the Guild line was finished in nitro laquer and then they switched to a poly coating. Anyone know how this applies to Starfires and what the date change was?

Maybe Hans can chime in on this.

 

[cc_mac]

[/quote]This is in my neck of the woods. I don't recall seeing them often in sunburst. [/quote]

That's not a Rockabilly but an early to mid 90s X-160 and I think it's been on e-bay without any bids. I'd take it for sure if it were within 200 miles of me but it's more like 3000

 

[jp]

This is in my neck of the woods. I don't recall seeing them often in sunburst.

That's not a Rockabilly but an early to mid 90s X-160 and I think it's been on e-bay without any bids. I'd take it for sure if it were within 200 miles of me but it's more like 3000

Oh, in the first reading I missed that you wanted the Rockabilly. If you want me to take a look at it, let me know.

 

[Andy Hiwatt]

Very interesting topic about one of my favourite guitars,since I had the pleasure to own a 1964 T100D with Guild made single coils. As I said many times this guitar is hard to put down once you start playing it, even unplugged it sounds alive and has a surprising loud full acoustic tone. I had a couple of chances to compare my T100D with late Nineties Starfires and I can confirm that though they look and indeed are beautiful instruments I didn't feel as comfortable as I am with my old T100D. The weight of the Starfires I tried was quite superior to my feather -like T100 and the finish almost glossy making the fretting up and down the neck not so natural and easy as on my T100.One of the Starfires I tried in a Tucson Store had a Bigsby arm and as I played the guitar seated it felt quite unbalanced...
The fretboard of my ( and I guess all the Sixties T100 and Starfires) is made of gorgeous Brazilian Rosewood,striped and very organic under your fingertips. There's something magic also in the single coil Guild made pickups, I find them perfect for what I like to play:classic Sixties and Seventies beat-rock-garage-blues ,those pickups seem versatile enough to deliver every sound requested,if coupled with the right clean sound of a Fender Valve Amp, or with the overdriven channel of the amp or some well chosen pedal.
Of course I don't mean to bad talk the Nineties Starfires in any way,the 2 I tried were gorgeous looking and well playing, but compared to my old baby they were different and less alluring to me.
Here's my beloved T100D in action some months ago, if my memory serves me well this picture was taken while we were playing THE SEEKER by THE WHO...,absolutely the same crunchy sparkling sound of Pete Townshend's fabled Gretsch 6120...