Stuffing!

guildzilla

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Well, there was the guy last winter who had stuffed his Guild archtop with 40,000 cotton balls. That was a hoot. Hard to believe they did this at the factory, as this ad contends.
 

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George Thorogood used towels. Missed the one about the cotton balls. I think you'd have to be dense to accept the "at the factory" claim.
 

walrus

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But wouldn't the "stuffing" change the sound quite a bit?

walrus
 

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Yeah, it does. I've hear that glueing a plastic cover on the inside of the f holes eliminates feedback without changing the tone. Guild just eliminated the f holes. Check out Guild's George Barnes model for an example of the concept.

41VV0SZCMDL._AA240_.jpg
 

The Guilds of Grot

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Not only did the George Barnes not have "f" holes, the pick-ups were not mounted to the top. They were mounted to posts that rose up from the back of the guitar and the top had clearance holes around the pick-ups. The theory was to allow the top to vibrate freely but with out feedback.
 

gilded

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The Guilds of Grot said:
Not only did the George Barnes not have "f" holes, the pick-ups were not mounted to the top. They were mounted to posts that rose up from the back of the guitar and the top had clearance holes around the pick-ups. The theory was to allow the top to vibrate freely but with out feedback.

Oh, they feed back, all right!
 

northbayj

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I had a Gretsch Tennessean with no f holes (OK, it had painted-on "f-holes") and it fedback pretty well. I think any hollowbody is going to feedback when you're cranked loud enough.
 

mad dog

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I might try the custom made f-hole plugs (Dougsplugs) on my (new to me) ES-330. Maybe not, as it seems more feedback resistant than I was prepared for. Have had good results from using black garbage bags (no kidding), gently stuffed into the f-holes to two Kay thinline hollowbody. Maybe because the bags are so light and insubstantial, they don't appear to affect the tone. If you get 3 or 4 in there, it definitely postpones feedback, maybe by disturbing airflow is my guess. Also gives you a very nice "down home, country folk" kind of look onstage ... especially helpful if it's a pass the hat kind of place.
 

matsickma

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I saw a George Barnes on ebay 4+ years ago. If I recall correctly it sold for around $4k!

Around that same time I saw a Guild Starfire 7 thick body sell for around $3.5k.

Both looked like they could have been the ones used for pictures in Hans book.

In regards to cotton balls...I picked up an old Aristocrat a few years back and it was stuffed with cotton balls. The guitar squealed feedback like crazy until I wax potted the PUPs.

M
 

The Guilds of Grot

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I saw a Starfire 7 a few years ago at the Philly guitar show.

It was like $5000.

I passed on it.

Still kicking myself to this day.
 

gilded

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The Guilds of Grot said:
gilded said:
Oh, they feed back, all right!
Do you know this from experience?

Do you have one?

If so, make with the pix as I have never see one!

Grot, I used to have one. For me though, it was more about the George Barnes connection than the Geo. Barnes Acousti-Lectric connection.

When I was a kid (17 to 25) I lived in NYC. When I was 19-ish, in '72, I began to play guitar and bass. Ellis, my teacher, was a student of George's. We used to go over to George's apt., rehearsals, gigs (if we could afford the tickets), etc. George was, at least to us 'kids', a wonderful guy. For what it's worth, I saw George's guitar a bunch of times.

Ellis left town for music school in the mid-'70's; we only got in touch sporadically. George left, too, moving to San Francisco. He passed away in '77.

One day in the late '70's, I saw a 'burst Acousti-Lectric in the window of one of the shops on the South Side of 48th St (Sam Ash?). I knew Ellis would want it, so I bought it, then spent six months tracking him down. When I found him, we traded; two terrible bottom-of-the-barrel '70's ES-175Ds for one Geo. Barnes. Cash-wise, it was a fair deal at the time.

This particular Acousti-Lectric was a great guitar. It didn't have the heart of George's personal guitar in terms of single note playing, but it was a better overall instrument. If you needed to add a couple of overtones or harmonic notes to a chord passage, they would come out with startling clarity. Never had a guitar like it.

The guys at the store said it belonged to a Guitar Player from Spain, who played with the 'Tom Jones of Spain'.
It may have originally been blond, too. It looked like it was a really good refin. The only giveaway was that the red portion of the burst was not quite right; more like very small dots of red than a shading or wash of color, if that makes sense.

Do I have pictures? No, I never even thought of it, I would have had to have a camera. Back then, I was so broke, I didn't even have a TV.

That's the story. Wait, feed-back. Oh yeah, you could make it feed-back in a hurry, more so than an L-5CES. The top moved freely, since it wasn't dampened by the weight of the pickups (think about it). Since it was moving freely, the strings were moving more, too (especially moving more compared to the pickups which were stationary with respect to the top movement, in that the were suspended inside the body, blah blah), and that in turn excited the electromagnetic fields of the pickups which made the guitar, wait, here it comes......feed-back fairly quickly!

Still, it wasn't un-useable by any means, just something you had to watch out for. In practice, I guess it was the reverse of George's theory. Oh, well, it was a cool guitar.

If anybody hears about one for sale, I'd really like to know. I think I'm probably good enough to play it now, a mere 30 years later.
 

Kap'n

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Nice story.

I always thought the pickups were attached to a 'broomstick' between the neck and endblock.

You do realize you need to provide a story about the Guitar in F, too. :D
 

The Guilds of Grot

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You know Kap'n, I believe you are right about the pick-up mounting. That's what I get for goofing off and posting at work!
 

gilded

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Kap'n said:
Nice story.

I always thought the pickups were attached to a 'broomstick' between the neck and endblock.

You do realize you need to provide a story about the Guitar in F, too. :D

I kind of thought it was a broomstick deal, too, but Jeez it's been so long, I don't even remember looking!

Kap'n, I've never seen a Geo. Barnes in F. I knew 'about' them, knew about the idea behind 'em, but if George had one in '72-73, I never saw it and never heard about it from the 3 students of George's that I knew.

Having said that, I don't want to give a false impression that I was big buds with George. I liked him and respected him immensely, but my entre' into that circle of musicians was my friend and teacher Ellis. If George knew my name it was only fleetingly, as in, 'Oh yeah, it's, ah....Henry?....... Harry, right!'

The last time I saw George in person, he was playing in Central Park (the Bandshell area?) on a hot summer's day, maybe a 'Concord Jazz in NYC festival'. He slot was early in the morning, maybe 10:00AM.

When we got there, George was already playing. They'd changed his time slot and he was just finishing up. In fact, his Sho-bud amp was distorting; the announcer joked that George was playing through a distortion pedal.

About five minutes after he'd quit, I remembered that he'd been in the hospital that winter, so I ran up to security and asked if George had left and in which direction. They pointed East, so I ran up the Park path towards 5th Ave until I saw George and his wife walking slowly. George was carrying the amp and Mrs. Barnes (Evelyn) was probably carrying the Acousti-Lectric.

I talked George into letting me carry the amp the rest of the way to 5th Ave., which was a whuppin'! I think that Sho-Bud was a transistor amp, but it probably had a cast-frame 15" speaker in it, plus it had a tape recorder built-in, etc. Really, I had to stop a couple of times. We finally got to 5th Ave. I think George thought it was pretty funny. He tried to give me a few bucks, but I was too embarrassed, so I waved and ran away.

Anyway, my apologies for highjacking the stuffing thread with tales of my youth.
 

Mark51

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I e-mailed the guy and asked for more information on the feedback stuffing and a couple other things. He never replied. Can't see bidding on something if the guy can't even take the time to answer a question or two.

Mark
 

capnjuan

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guildzilla said:
Well, there was the guy last winter who had stuffed his Guild archtop with 40,000 cotton balls. That was a hoot.
Hi 'Zilla; found the thread but the original eBay cotton balls-in-body pics long gone. Without the pics, the read is a little squirrelly but ... eh ... not all that uncommon here! :wink: j
 

hansmoust

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Kap'n said:
I always thought the pickups were attached to a 'broomstick' between the neck and endblock.

Hello Kap'n,

The 'broomstick' is what the Gibson people called Les Paul's early experiments with the solid body guitar; almost as good a story as the one about the record label that turned down the Beatles because 'guitar music was on the way out'.

Anyway, the pickups on both the George Barnes AcoustiLectric and the George Barnes Guitar in F were mounted on an internal wooden bar that was going from the neck block to the tail block.

Here's a photo that shows the bar under the pickups:

GB_AE.jpg


Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

Kap'n

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The 'broomstick' that originally came to mind for me was that stupid metal bar on the inside of 60's Fender acoustics.
 
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