StarFire Guild (SF3 AB) need your expertise, please!

[canrockonthisthing]

New to GUILDs, thinking to pay for SF3 AB (thats what on its label). It's 97', had one owner.

Comes in original case. I say the guitar in a "closet" condition, does not look played much, really.
It has only minor scratches on pick guard, few minor bad spots under first and second string on the first fret. Some rust on screws and green on frets.... Intonation was set and its sounds super acoustically; I did not try pickups yet.

The Qs:

1. How I know if pickups are still alive (Ohm rating??)
2. Price to pay.

I love color too! It's sort of tobacco burst with dark red on edges.

If I got any answers before Saturday afternoon that would be awesome! Thank you all.

 

[capnjuan]

SF3 AB (thats what on its label). It has ... few minor bad spots under first and second string on the first fret ... Some rust on screws and green on frets ... The Qs: 1. How I know if pickups are still alive (Ohm rating??) 2. Price to pay.

Hi CROTT and welcome; AB is 'antique burst', what are 'bad spots'? Rust/corrosion(green); this thing been at the seashore? Pickups somewhere between 5K and 9K. Got pics? Price ... who knows ... $700 - $900 ... maybe $700 if the 'spots', rust, corrosion are readily visible. I mean it sounds a little dirty. He cleans it up, he can ask more; you clean it up, you pay less. CJ

 

[Jeff]

I paid $900 for this one, not too long ago.

Twas virtually mint, maybe just a very few pick scratches. There're quite a few more pic scratches now.

 

[canrockonthisthing]

The guitar on the pic above exactly like what I'm trying right now! (I love that dark red on edges! So, AB stands for color, thanks!) Bad spots I mean frets wear, little dings... under second string the spot is more visible, no buzzes though. Yes, green is removable, I think it shows that nobody actually played this guitar for years.
Reading between 5k and 9k... that's a huge difference. That's for new and aged, or there are different PUs sometimes on SF? I think on this one everything is original.

Side by side with Gibson ES335 it gave me just a bit more then 1/2 of the volume of Gibson, with SF's PU adjusted exactly as on ES335.... wonder why?
How's PU on yours? How's it sound?

I have time till tomorrow.... asked to pay about $820 US

Thank you for your replies!

PS We are at the Ontario lake shore, that's another reason for developing green on metal. Your guess is almost right!! :mrgreen:

 

[capnjuan]

... Side by side with Gibson ES335 it gave me just a bit more then 1/2 of the volume of Gibson, with SF's PU adjusted exactly as on ES335.... wonder why? ... Do you know how much Ohms readings on yours? I have time till tomorrow.... asked to pay about $820 US ... PS We are at the Ontario lake shore, that's another reason for developing green on metal. Your guess is almost right!!

Hi CROTT:

Volume differential: probably the difference between the pots 250K v. 500K, higher value louder
Ohms readings; no, don't know mine for sure, never measured; these are just the conventional range of values usually found.
Guild HBs; generally warm, woody, sparklely when new ... not for metal.
Price: $820 ... provided the thing will clean up and you like the sound ...
Ontario lake shore; just luck... :wink:

Good luck w/ your decision. CJ

 

[dklsplace]

Assuming it's the HB-1 pickups in the Starfire, they are a medium out pickup well suited to jazz. I doubt there's any problems with them, & as cj mentioned above....pot & cap values could make a fair amount of difference between the SF & the Gibby.

I would certainly say that's a good price for a '97 SF III in that condition. Gunk can always be cleaned! :mrgreen:

 

[canrockonthisthing]

Yes! No gunk on Guilds!

Pickups are exactly as on pic above, their covers have that shape and the same pattern on the cover's top.

Readings on PU on both guitars (SF and ES) are around 7K, so it is pots then, right?
Is it a bad idea... ...to change pots on SF to 500k...? Something inside tells me that it is! (I'm falling in love with this guitar :lol

Strings could make a difference?

 

[capnjuan]

Hi CROTT: if you like the guitar, you can always turn up the volume on the amp ... at least until you make up your mind about the p/u's and pots. CJ

 

[canrockonthisthing]

Hi, CAPNJUAN! Yes, :lol: you're right. I did, ha ha. And what else I did, I lowered PU on ES a bit and I brought up PU on SF. I A/B them and I just played one and another frequently through the day.

I have to say I like the tone of SF more and more. After improvising on it, switching to ES does not pleases me. In return, switching to SF makes me (my imagination, music) flow better.

I have SetTrem whammy on ES, tomorrow I'll take it off... SF seems stays in tune much better then ES when using whammy.... ... I think I'll buy SF no matter what, the tone I'm getting out of SF plugged straight into my amp is good, it kind of opens up my ears. After playing SF, my ES sort of scares me a bit and makes me tense. That's sound wise. I wonder, how these PU supposed to sound if new.

The construction wise:

I like the shape of the neck on ES better, and I used to it's balance...
On SF I can see PU switch and it easier to change PU while playing (with my thumb or using left hand)!

ES has better (for me) balance because how strap attaches to guitar on neck side under the ES neck. SF' strap neck side post is on the guitars body...
And, I think I like guitar's cord connected on the top (ES), not on the side of guitar(SF). (For, when taking breaks, keeping guitar in its case, not on the stand, with a cord plugged; secondly, on ES it is easier to plug cord into guitar :roll: :roll: )

All these are minor things, I just thought you might be interested in freshman observations...

One more concern:
Is Ohm has anything to do with the strength of the magnet? I suspect... ...no! If I'm right, then the question remains the same: for ten years how PU's sound changes? Would be it better to refit guitar with new (replacements) PU? Or what?

How you, guys, deal with PUs on old guitars anyway?? ...just wanna know, I think I'm buying SF :shock: anyway...

Thanks!

 

[danerectal]

Isn't magnetic inductance measured in Henries? Any way, I'd say age can affect the magnets within a pickup, but it would take much more than 10 years to really bawl it up. If the pickups were exposed to a strong magnet, that certainly could have an impact, but I'd count on other members of the chain causing low output. I'd really be interested to hear what ultimately causes the difference as I'd think their output would be inherently close.

 

[canrockonthisthing]

Right! Ohms is a resistance of PUs wire.

Having no other scientific means, I'm holding long screw next to magnetic pols. It shows stronger pull on ES335. (I'll double check first thing in a morning! :evil: grrrrrrr....)

 

[capnjuan]

Hi crott; nice avatar! Yes; the distance between the magnets and the strings makes a difference but corrosion is the enemy of volume and tone; especially on the resistive elements of the vol/tone controls, on the surface of the magnets, on the jack contacts*, and probably most importantly, on the wire in the windings. Energy travels on the outside of wire, not in its core.

If the outside starts to get a layer of corrosion, the corrosion increases the resistance of the wire, and when carrying a signal, the corrosion degrades it. The other issue is the quality of the wire used in the windings. Ampistas enjoyed pissing on audiophiles for their obsessive attitude towards their gear and and accessories ... like expensive interconnects made of OFHC / oxygen-free, high-conductivity wire. This stuff costs more than the doorbell-grade wire typically used in mass-produced pickups. There are dozens of people re-winding vintage pickups and, when they do, I promise you they put back the best grade wire they can afford ... one of the biggest reasons they have such desireable tone. When you consider that there are thousands of guitars with 30 year-old pickups in them that sound great, I think you can rule out age as an issue. I say this not because I am a too-sensitive geezer, but because, after all, there's evidence that at least one of the prior owners disrespected anality ... and physics ... and didn't spend enough quality time with the guitar unplugged.

Speaking for myself, before I spent several hundred dollars on fresh pickups, I'd wanna know that they were the problem in the first place so instead of new p/u's, I'd get some spray cleaner and go after the electronic stuff that I could reach; selector switch, controls, and the jack. WiW, Hideglue, and the rest of the boyz at Westerly were kind enough to orient the controls so that the opening in their bodies is exposed towards the F holes; you can spray cleaner/lubricant on the controls and the selector switch through the F holes without wrecking / staining the inside and without removing the harness.

Without going through this effort, if you bought new pickups and the electronics were full of corrosion, there's a good chance it wouldn't sound any different. Of course, you could then clean them up and get what you were after but you might find that the tone upbump from old to new wasn't worth the money . Good luck! CJ


* Can't resist taking a parting shot here at FMIC/Guild. Somebody - presumably one of the bean counters - concluded that they couldn't make the profit margin if they added the $.18 worth of wire slack necesary to allow the jack to drop out of the guitar. To inspect, re-tension, or replace the cheapo production jack ... yes ... that's right ... because the jack's leads are so short, it will not drop out ... you have to tug the entire harness out ... :evil: Sorry ... makes me mad everytime I think about it. :wink: cj

 

[canrockonthisthing]

Hi crott; nice avatar!
Without going through this effort, if you bought new pickups and the electronics were full of corrosion, there's a good chance it wouldn't sound any different. Of course, you could then clean them up and get what you were after but you might find that the tone upbump from old to new wasn't worth the money . Good luck! CJ

Thanks, CJ! (I'm buying this SF ) And, thank you very much for your info on corrosion! I heard you and I'm going to local shop to get cleaning done right now.

* Can't resist taking a parting shot here at FMIC/Guild. Somebody - presumably one of the bean counters - concluded that they couldn't make the profit margin if they adding the $.18 worth of wire slack necesary to allow the jack to drop out of the guitar. To inspect, re-tension, or replace the cheapo production jack ... yes ... that's right ... because the jack's leads are so short, it will not drop out ... you have to tug the entire harness out ... :evil: Sorry ... makes me mad everytime I think about it. :wink: cj

Oh, totally!

 

[capnjuan]

8) CJ

 

[canrockonthisthing]

Happy Thanksgiving from Canada!

(My local shop is closed. I have to wait till Tuesday.... :mrgreen: ) Hmm...still wonder, if visibly less pull to SF magnets then to ES magnets tells me truth about their proper condition. I'm using that metal screw again :lol:

There is no Guilds in the store I'm visiting I could compare pickups with. Hmm...

 

[capnjuan]

Hmm...still wonder, if visibly less pull to SF magnets then to ES magnets tells me truth about their proper condition.

Hi crott; reading material on pickups at Wiki and Build Your Guitar. Cheers! CJ