Starfire 2- Vintage vs Reissue?

[MojoTooth]

I wanted to get LTG's take on the pros and cons of the vintage Starfire vs the Reissue Starfires. Reason I ask is I have ben holding out for a vintage Starfire but recently found a 1999 reissue Starfire which appears to be mint in my price range and am very tempted to buy it rather than waiting for a vintage one.

What are the good bad and ugly of each regarding: playability, features, etc...?

Thanks in advance, I know i should get some good info from you guys.

 

[kakerlak]

If you are looking for one with the large pickups, there shouldn't be anything wrong w/ the 90s SF-IIs. There used to be a pretty blonde one at GC way back when that I "almost" bought several times. Fit and finish seems really good in this era of Guild.

The plus is that a new-ish one is a lot less likely to have hidden issues (if buying sight unseen) like repairs, mods, needs a neck reset, etc. than a 40-50 year old model.

On the other hand, if you prefer small humbuckers or DeArmonds, then you might be happier holding out for a vintage one.

I do not have any experience with the post-Fender Guilds. From what I understand reading here, they made some changes to the internal workings of the pickups and I have never played one to know if thet's good/bad. The pre-Fender pikcups are so good that it's hard to imagine changes for the better, though...

 

[MojoTooth]

Yes I would be buying site unseen so my main concerns are playability issues like needing a neck reset. The pups aren't really that much of a concern as I like all three pups you mentioned. I have heard good and bad testimonials about the reissues so I wasn't sure if there was anything else to be concerned with about those models.

 

[GAD]

I've not owned a SFII, but I have SFIII and IVs.

The biggest difference to me are the pickups and the neck.

The pickups can't be beat in vintage models. Period. The reissue pickups are nice, but they don't compare with vintage HB1s or mini-hums. If the reissue is from '98 or before (I think that's the cutoff), it might have SD1s which are much better than the later-made Fender HB1s. The SD1s also appear to be the same size as the original HB1s, so you could drop a pair of vintage pickups in there if you wanted. I only know because my recently purchased '98 SFIII has these.

The necks are a bigger deal to me. I've owned two 70s starfire IVs. Both had 1 5/8" necks that were *very* tiny in my hands. The '76 was better than the '73 which was so small I just couldn't keep it. All of the reissues I've played/owned have had 1 11/16" necks with a bit more heft to them. Not Les-Paul 50's necks by any stretch - more of a recent Strat C-neck if that helps.

The vintage guitars will likely be Lacquer. I love lacquer. The reissues are Poly. Looks great, but doesn't age or feel as sexy as lacquer.

As I said, I've owned many Starfires, and I opted to keep the reissues. Even with the superior pickups, sound and feel, I just couldn't bond with the tiny necks, and brother, those were some dead sexy guitars to let go!

I currently have three late 90s Guilds: Starfire III, Starfire4 and X170T. I love 'em all. I have no regrets about selling my vintage Guilds. If they had wider/bigger necks, I'd have kept them.

I'm curious what bad things you've heard about the reissues? I've never heard a bad word about any Guild other than my own whining about the Fender HB1s.

GAD

 

[yettoblaster]

I may be way offbase here but there's a vintage Starfire (double cutaway 335 style locally [Sylvan Music]) that has the two piece bridge with an upper and a lower (foot).

I'm a big fan of that idea because it offers versatility (I can get a better jazz sound).

I don't see how it would need a neck reset with that much room to work with. There's plenty to grind down if need be and I think it could be visible from pictures if it was bottomed out. The one at Sylvan Music looks to be sixties and doesn't appear to have budged at all, ever.

I never thought Guild electrics were known for neck set problems. Seems rare to me. I'd be much more worried about a Gibson SG.
If it hasn't been cooked in a trunk or attic it's hard for me to imagine a Starfire design with problems just from time/age.

 

[Walter Broes]

Yetto, there are quite a few 60's Starfire III's around that even though they have a factory Bigsby B6, the neck set is barely enough, or not even, for that setup.
And I've seen some SFIII's with a loose neck, not all that surprising, you see the same thing on 60's Gibson ES125T's, a thinline archtop without a center block has a small neck block/tenon/heel, so there's not that much the neck attaches to. It's not nearly as common as on vintage Gretsches though, where a neck reset is almost a given, no matter which model.

Not a lot of experience with post-Hoboken Guilds myself, but I'll agree that the necks on some 60's Guilds might be too small and narrow for some people. Hard to beat the pickups in the 60's Guilds though.

 

[MojoTooth]

I'm curious what bad things you've heard about the reissues? I've never heard a bad word about any Guild other than my own whining about the Fender HB1s.

GAD

The bad things I have heard were the same things you outlined, about the pickups and the neck thickness. My main electric guitar is a Tele with the 1 11/16 neck so I am used to that. The Starfire I was looking at was a 99 but it already sold. now I am looking at a 99. The pups look to be the chunky ones.

Now that I think about the neck width more, what is the normal nut width for like a D25 acoustic. The first thing I loved about Guild acoustics was the "Guild neck". Although since I am used to the 1 11/16 i dont think it would be an issue, but the vintage M65 3/4 I had seemed to have that nice slim neck profile

 

[yettoblaster]

Yetto, there are quite a few 60's Starfire III's around that even though they have a factory Bigsby B6, the neck set is barely enough, or not even, for that setup...

Welp, considering I was thinking about vintage SF IV's, I appreciate that you were gentle with me.

At my last Geezers Anonymous meeting they gave me a humility pin: but when I put it on, they took it away!

 

[adorshki]

Now that I think about the neck width more, what is the normal nut width for like a D25 acoustic. The first thing I loved about Guild acoustics was the "Guild neck". Although since I am used to the 1 11/16 i dont think it would be an issue, but the vintage M65 3/4 I had seemed to have that nice slim neck profile

Hi Mojo: I know EXACTLY what you mena. The first time I held a D25 (my Westerly) it was a revelation. I've never seen anything but the 1-11/16ths nut for D25's. That's what ours have. A very few Guilds of recent vintages (since '90) have a 1-5/8 nut.
I was going to say I think all the reissue Starfires are 1-11/16th nut but my memory's been bad recently, and I'm trying to recall the specs I have in my '96 catalog.
Out of curiosity and for comparison's sake, do you notice any difference in the necks of your D25s? My D40(Corona) has a very slightly deeper cross-section than the D25, I don't know if it's a slight production tolerance issue, or if it's a characteristic of D40's, or if maybe Corona necks in general were slightly "chunkier"...

 

[MojoTooth]

Now that I think about the neck width more, what is the normal nut width for like a D25 acoustic. The first thing I loved about Guild acoustics was the "Guild neck". Although since I am used to the 1 11/16 i dont think it would be an issue, but the vintage M65 3/4 I had seemed to have that nice slim neck profile

Hi Mojo: I know EXACTLY what you mena. The first time I held a D25 (my Westerly) it was a revelation. I've never seen anything but the 1-11/16ths nut for D25's. That's what ours have. A very few Guilds of recent vintages (since '90) have a 1-5/8 nut.
I was going to say I think all the reissue Starfires are 1-11/16th nut but my memory's been bad recently, and I'm trying to recall the specs I have in my '96 catalog.
Out of curiosity and for comparison's sake, do you notice any difference in the necks of your D25s? My D40(Corona) has a very slightly deeper cross-section than the D25, I don't know if it's a slight production tolerance issue, or if it's a characteristic of D40's, or if maybe Corona necks in general were slightly "chunkier"...

The RI Starfire I looked at was definitely 1 11/16.

As for your question about the D25's. I had to go sit and play them both for 10 minutes each. I think the neck on the Corona does feel slightly chunkier to me but maybe that is just my opinion. The neck on my 97 feels perfect to me. I really love this guitar. I'll be keeping this one forever.

 

[MojoTooth]

Question: For a 1997, mint Starfire II in the natural color with some flame and the SD1's in it, is $1000 with hardshell case too much or about right?

 

[adorshki]

Question: For a 1997, mint Starfire II in the natural color with some flame and the SD1's in it, is $1000 with hardshell case too much or about right?

This the same one you started the new thread on? I think "mint" is the operative word. Yeah we've seen 'em lower but I agree with Thunderface, basically a "guitar in the hand is worth two in the bush". As for getting the tones, my personal opinion is YOUR technique is going to be a far more important element of that than the actual guitar construction. I'd judge it by the neck before the body style. If it don't feel good you'll never be comfortable enough to get the best out of it anyway.
As for devices? Jeff Beck don't need no stinkin' devices... :lol:
On that Corona neck thing, I noticed it about my D40 for years before one night I looked really close and realized it actually was ever so slightly thicker from about the 3rd fret down. It's maybe a 1/16th deeper in cross section or something even though the widths are the same. But yeah, those late Westerly necks are absolutely perfect from all reports.

 

[MojoTooth]

Question: For a 1997, mint Starfire II in the natural color with some flame and the SD1's in it, is $1000 with hardshell case too much or about right?

This the same one you started the new thread on? I think "mint" is the operative word. Yeah we've seen 'em lower but I agree with Thunderface, basically a "guitar in the hand is worth two in the bush". As for getting the tones, my personal opinion is YOUR technique is going to be a far more important element of that than the actual guitar construction. I'd judge it by the neck before the body style. If it don't feel good you'll never be comfortable enough to get the best out of it anyway.
As for devices? Jeff Beck don't need no stinkin' devices... :lol:
On that Corona neck thing, I noticed it about my D40 for years before one night I looked really close and realized it actually was ever so slightly thicker from about the 3rd fret down. It's maybe a 1/16th deeper in cross section or something even though the widths are the same. But yeah, those late Westerly necks are absolutely perfect from all reports.

yeah same one. I played one just like this locally and the neck with the 1 11/16 nut felt good to me since I play a Tele with that size nut as my main electric. The one locally ended up selling for $975 on ebay and was in less condition plus had the HB1's in it.

 

[adorshki]

See my other observation on the other thread...

 

[matsickma]

Reissue SF3's used to sell in the $850 to $950 range a few years back Now they run $200+ more. I would think a mint SF2 at at $1000 is reasonable. If you sold it you may loose $100 or gain $100 depending on the ebay GAS of the moment. Vintage SF's are almost always over $1200 and can go for $2000+ with stock DeArmond.

In my experiance the vintage SF3's feedback howl more easily than the reissue SF3's. I have not owned a '70's model SF3 yet but suspect if it follows to how Guild used a thicker top as in the CE100 models the '70s models may b ea llittle ess prone to howl feedback.


M

 

[MojoTooth]

Ended up getting it for $977 total with a hardshell and free shipping. Feeling good about that price I have to say.

 

[adorshki]

Yep, sounds like score! Congrats!

 

[MojoTooth]

Yep, sounds like score! Congrats!

here is the same year guitar, with a lot less flame on the top and original case but for $350 more.

I do hope I can find an original Guild case for my new baby though

 

[909one]

I just got a vintage Starfire II and the neck is a 1 5/8's. I swore I would never own a 1 5/8's neck after buying a '79 Starfire V with the thinnest neck ever.
However, the neck on the 60's Starfire is so much more comfy than the '79 that its made me kinda like 1 5/8 necks alot more. Plus the guitar is so cool in every other respect that its not worth selling because of the skinnier neck. I am almost thinking of getting a new neck for my Tele that's 1 5/8 now because switching back to it makes it seem like I am playing a classical guitar! :wink:

 

[adorshki]

I just got a vintage Starfire II and the neck is a 1 5/8's. I swore I would never own a 1 5/8's neck after buying a '79 Starfire V with the thinnest neck ever.
However, the neck on the 60's Starfire is so much more comfy than the '79 that its made me kinda like 1 5/8 necks alot more. Plus the guitar is so cool in every other respect that its not worth selling because of the skinnier neck. I am almost thinking of getting a new neck for my Tele that's 1 5/8 now because switching back to it makes it seem like I am playing a classical guitar! :wink:

We've discussed that issue a bit towards the end of this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19168
My personal opinion is that nut width is only half the equation. The other half is "cross-section", ie how deep is the profile and how does it graduate from the headstock to the heel.