So what’s the deal with Adirondack?

[Rich Cohen]

Adirondack is the king of Tops sonically and Power wise and when you turn it down for those softer musical pieces it shimmers with bliss .

Ray knows what he's talking about.

 

[Rayk]

That's what Huss & Dalton does. Red spruce bracing on all tops, regardless of species.

One of the few remaining old growth red spruce trees fell during a storm in the Virginian Appalachians about 20 years ago, and Huss & Dalton bought some of it and have been using it for bracing material ever since.

I think it's kinda cool that at least some of the wood in one of my guitars is made from wood that is native to where I live.

Thought id throw this one out there Neal,

Some builders do not like mixing Adirondack bracing with Adirondack tops . They feel it limits the tops movements along with hindering its tone.

Of course not all feel that way .

 

[chazmo]

As a compromise between the two, some guitar manufacturers are using Sitka Spruce tops with Red Spruce bracing. Some are even looking into torrefied bracing. A lot of combinations out there to be discussed.

Tommy

Guild has been using red spruce braces since New Hartford era (and possibly Tacoma as well, not sure). I don't think Guild has been doing any torrefaction yet, whereas Martin and Taylor are.

 

[kostask]

Some builders favour Engleman for instruments designed to be fingerpicked, and Sitka for all arounders. Adirondack/Red is for guitars that are intended for flatpicking.

I just play the guitar, and judge whether I like it or not.

 

[Guildedagain]

Speaking of Canadian woods, I have an Art & Lutherie "Spruce" made of Cherry, Maple, Rosewood and Spruce, took it out of the case yesterday, been over a year easy, visibly tarnished old strings didn't even tune one string, and it completely blew my mind. For something I keep around to hand to someone who wants to borrow a guitar at a party and I had been trying to peddle it on CL for almost nothing with a nice tolex hardcase, eventually gave up on the ad.

I wonder if they used Red Spruce, or not likely? Dunno if it's La Patrie's shading on the top, it's a very satin finish, but the top color is a lot less blonde than most Spruce tops, has a bit of Cedarish amber glow.

 

[Westerly Wood]

I keep hearing about Guilds using Adirondack for tops. Does my 74’ D-35 have a Adirondack top as well as my 86’ D-25? Is it a type of spruce? I never heard of such a wood until I started collecting Guild’s.

no, both of those are sitka spruce.
adi has more headroom and is bassier in most cases and more projection and volume.
sitka is a harder form of spruce and this while still projects well and as way more volume than a hog top, it is not as profound nor powerful as adi.

no D35 or D25 EVER had adi top.

 

[Rambozo96]

no, both of those are sitka spruce.
adi has more headroom and is bassier in most cases and more projection and volume.
sitka is a harder form of spruce and this while still projects well and as way more volume than a hog top, it is not as profound nor powerful as adi.

no D35 or D25 EVER had adi top.

Thank you for the info. For the longest time I assumed there was just one type of spruce. I do own a spruce solid body made by EKO. Just a beautifully resonant and light guitar. I am at a loss as to why it’s not used in solid body guitars much at all. One could make the point that it’s easy to debt but so is basswood and IIRC poplar doesn’t take abuse well either. With that in house EKO Dimarzio look alike that whole guitar is magic man....

 

[Westerly Wood]

Thank you for the info. For the longest time I assumed there was just one type of spruce. I do own a spruce solid body made by EKO. Just a beautifully resonant and light guitar. I am at a loss as to why it’s not used in solid body guitars much at all. One could make the point that it’s easy to debt but so is basswood and IIRC poplar doesn’t take abuse well either. With that in house EKO Dimarzio look alike that whole guitar is magic man....

i have only seen one all sitka spruce acoustic guitar. bet it looks stunning.

 

[Rambozo96]

i have only seen one all sitka spruce acoustic guitar. bet it looks stunning.

Here it is. Not sure how it made it to the states.

 

[Neal]

In fact, there are a number of different species of spruce that are used in guitar tops, including:

Sitka, Red, Engelmann, European (also known as Alpine, Itialian or German), Carpathian, Lutz.

 

[cutrofiano]

Amati and Stradivari got their (red) spruce from the Nothern Appelachians.
There ain't nothing that can even be compared...

 

[kostask]

Speaking of Canadian woods, I have an Art & Lutherie "Spruce" made of Cherry, Maple, Rosewood and Spruce, took it out of the case yesterday, been over a year easy, visibly tarnished old strings didn't even tune one string, and it completely blew my mind. For something I keep around to hand to someone who wants to borrow a guitar at a party and I had been trying to peddle it on CL for almost nothing with a nice tolex hardcase, eventually gave up on the ad.

I wonder if they used Red Spruce, or not likely? Dunno if it's La Patrie's shading on the top, it's a very satin finish, but the top color is a lot less blonde than most Spruce tops, has a bit of Cedarish amber glow.

Art and Lutherie guitars can have aolid spruce or cedar tops. I'm pretty sure that the ones with Spruce tops are Sitka.

Wild Cherry (with a poplar middle layer) is used in the laminates for the back and sides (this laminate is used for many Godin guitars). More than likely, Rosewood is the fingerboard, and Maple is used for the bridge plate.

One of the characteristics of laminate bodied guitars is that they are very stable, so temperature swings don't cause the body to move much, so they stay in tune better.

From what I have seen, Art and Lutherie guitars use this satin finish exclusively. I have never seen a high gloss Art and Lutherie guitar. It is also used in lower end models of the other Godin guitar lines. Those other lines do have high gloss models, though.

Godin Guitars has a very long history, and an interesting one, but this isn't the time and place for it.

 

[Guildedagain]

Thx the A&L info. I've liked all the guitars made by them whenever I've played them, from beatup Seagulls to the 5th Ave that I was never worthy of.

Holy cr@p that's a nice Eko. They got away with one of the better Strat headstock ripoffs I've seen. And how weird is that, that so classic 50's headstock shape with a 80's buttrock single Dimarzio. Cool hardware, my Hondo 12 is like that, TOM/Stop TP combo, on a Strat body, neat mix of Fender/Gibson.

A Butcher ;] Cool. Carvin with G12-75's?

 

[Rambozo96]

Thx the A&L info. I've liked all the guitars made by them whenever I've played them, from beatup Seagulls to the 5th Ave that I was never worthy of.

Holy cr@p that's a nice Eko. They got away with one of the better Strat headstock ripoffs I've seen. And how weird is that, that so classic 50's headstock shape with a 80's buttrock single Dimarzio. Cool hardware, my Hondo 12 is like that, TOM/Stop TP combo, on a Strat body, neat mix of Fender/Gibson.

A Butcher ;] Cool. Carvin with G12-75's?

I think it had Electrovoice speakers in it. Originally had Carvin branded speakers but one of them blew so I thought an upgrade would be in order. I have no idea when it was made, I recall the pickup was roughly in the 10k region as far as output goes. I had someone tell me it’s an early Shadow pickup but I never had damning evidence of this. EKO was probably well enough equipped to make pickups on hand seeing they were the top manufacturer for guitars in Europe until Japan slaughtered everyone. It is a very resonant guitar. I always wanted someone to clone the pickup but I don’t know if that requires destroying it and I always wondered if the body wood was a major contributor to its tone.

 

[midnightright]

Yeah, I've tended to hear the words like, "Pop," & "sparkle," to describe or be associated with that particular top-wood as well...
Mine was about a dozen years old, or so--& had really begun to mature in sound in that last handful of years! Why, I got rid of it - is because I am an idiot.

 

[SFIV1967]

I don't think Guild has been doing any torrefaction yet, whereas Martin and Taylor are.

And I hope Guild will never offer "baked" or torrefied wood guitar... The look of those heavy baked Martin VTS and also Fenders is just wrong to me...I prefer slightly aged lacquer if one wants to have a more vintage look. There might be tonal and structural and weight advantages for having a correctly baked wood guitar but I'm not a fan...

Roasted Wood: What Is It? 2023 - COMMERCIAL FOREST PRODUCTS 2022

Roasted hardwood lumber is stable in challenging environments. Tempered, torrified or thermally treated hardwood reduces moisture issues.

www.commercialforestproducts.com

Ralf

 

[HeyMikey]

I had a Martin OM28 VTS torrified and not only did it look terrific it sounded great! It just had too much overtones for my style and was too expensive at the time. Selling it allowed me to pay for 2-1/2 Guilds. Great guitar though. Torrification works if done right.

 

[midnightright]

I've heard it said that a lot of people will sell their boutique instruments before they've had a chance to really begin to, "open-up!" So, think if you invest in a new Collings, for instance, and maybe you weren't used to them - & then four or five years, you give up on it... (but I don't unfortunately have that convenient excuse!) its good news for buyer's of second hand sales though. As they do tend to take quite a hit, from what I understand!

 

[mario1956]

I think it just depends on the guitar. I have a 2004 Blueridge BR260 that is Brazilian/ Sitka and I like it better than the 260A I played with the Adi top.

 

[chazmo]

And I hope Guild will never offer "baked" or torrefied wood guitar... The look of those heavy baked Martin VTS and also Fenders is just wrong to me...I prefer slightly aged lacquer if one wants to have a more vintage look. There might be tonal and structural and weight advantages for having a correctly baked wood guitar but I'm not a fan...

Roasted Wood: What Is It? 2023 - COMMERCIAL FOREST PRODUCTS 2022

Roasted hardwood lumber is stable in challenging environments. Tempered, torrified or thermally treated hardwood reduces moisture issues.

www.commercialforestproducts.com

Ralf

Well, I'm skeptical about it too, Ralf, but honestly I'd really have to listen in order to A/B the treated wood with non-treated. I think it'd be a great experiment... I know I was converted about the importance of bracing position by trying multiple Martin 28 series models. They differed in some other important ways as well, but playing a D-28, HD-28, and HD-28V side by side is an eye-opening experience re: different sounds, primarily from bracing positions. Torrefaction might be similar, but who knows?

As for the look of it, well, yeah.... not a great fan either, but that's secondary to me.