Taylor makes some nice 12s. I'd still put Martin at 2nd best (well, I've never played a GJ model), but Taylor has some really nice ones. In any case, I know 'Strang would agree with you. He's got quite the 12er collection.
So are the Guild 12’s really all that?
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Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
I've been known to play a 9 string myself. Who did the inlay work? Man, the Grovers really stick out, probably touching the case on both sides?
Heath
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I picked up the 10 string trick from WileyPickett. The neck is I believe a custom 60’s Guild neck. The grovers are great and don’t touch the case
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
Amazing guitar, I like it. What's on the TRC?
Pickguard is really interesting is that the original?
Pickguard is really interesting is that the original?
Heath
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An owner made that inlay in the TRC. I also believe A previous owner changed the pickguard cover due to the original shrinking.
Growing up I had no affection for 12 strings, or any desire to own one. My only experience of them being 70s Yamahas - with stupid high action, and all jangley trebley and thin sounding.
I only took any notice of the Guild F212 in my local music store (back in 1991) because I knew of the owner - a local singer songwriter. I'd certainly class that first meeting with that guitar a conversion experience. I vividly remember playing the two-finger A2nd chord at the 6th fret, and hearing the octave d string ring out like a chiming bell. I put some money down there and then (I was totally unprepared to buy a guitar at the time), and had it paid of within a month.
It became my partner in song 3 nights a week all through my 20s. Learnt more about that guitar - that it was made in 1975. Also learnt about Guild's fame in the 12-string arena. nearly 30 years later, I still love it to bits. I haven't played three nights a week for decades now, but the old Guild hangs in pride of place in my office and is enjoyed every day.
An aside - I discovered a key feature, that set the Guild dramatically apart from those old 70s Yamahas and the like - the stagger of the string holes in the bridge - Guilds had this absolutely right from the start. The old Yamahas had the opposite, and that really over-emphasised the octave strings to my ear.
Interestingly, Yamaha changed to the Guild string hole pattern back in 80s I believe. Martin have only very recently adopted it across their range.
I only took any notice of the Guild F212 in my local music store (back in 1991) because I knew of the owner - a local singer songwriter. I'd certainly class that first meeting with that guitar a conversion experience. I vividly remember playing the two-finger A2nd chord at the 6th fret, and hearing the octave d string ring out like a chiming bell. I put some money down there and then (I was totally unprepared to buy a guitar at the time), and had it paid of within a month.
It became my partner in song 3 nights a week all through my 20s. Learnt more about that guitar - that it was made in 1975. Also learnt about Guild's fame in the 12-string arena. nearly 30 years later, I still love it to bits. I haven't played three nights a week for decades now, but the old Guild hangs in pride of place in my office and is enjoyed every day.
An aside - I discovered a key feature, that set the Guild dramatically apart from those old 70s Yamahas and the like - the stagger of the string holes in the bridge - Guilds had this absolutely right from the start. The old Yamahas had the opposite, and that really over-emphasised the octave strings to my ear.
Interestingly, Yamaha changed to the Guild string hole pattern back in 80s I believe. Martin have only very recently adopted it across their range.
wileypickett
Enlightened Member
My introduction to Guilds came via the discovery of a JF30 12-string on my local Craigslist. I had two Taylor jumbo 12-strings at the time, inlcuding a Leo Kottke signature model, but since the Guild was cheap and I didn't know the brand, I decided to go have a look.
I was blown away and bought the guitar. Within a month I'd sold one of my Taylors (I still have the LKSM) and started checking out other Guilds.
Years later I own (or have owned) most of the jumbo 12-string models Guild offered during their Hoboken and Westerly eras. They're the best 12s I've encountered.
Granted, the Taylor necks can't be beat. But the sound, at least to my ears, pales in comparison to Guild jumbos. I just had the Taylor / Kottke out a couple days ago. I don't get my kicks knocking any brands, but it just sounds weak, muzzy in the mid-ranges. I want to like it -- it's a beautiful looking guitar, has aged to a lovely honey color, but -- in a word it just lacks Guild's *authority*.
Whether they're for you, only you can decide.
I'm very fond of my F212XL. Here's one for a good price on Reverb, and it seems to be in good shape.
reverb.com
Good luck!
Glenn
I was blown away and bought the guitar. Within a month I'd sold one of my Taylors (I still have the LKSM) and started checking out other Guilds.
Years later I own (or have owned) most of the jumbo 12-string models Guild offered during their Hoboken and Westerly eras. They're the best 12s I've encountered.
Granted, the Taylor necks can't be beat. But the sound, at least to my ears, pales in comparison to Guild jumbos. I just had the Taylor / Kottke out a couple days ago. I don't get my kicks knocking any brands, but it just sounds weak, muzzy in the mid-ranges. I want to like it -- it's a beautiful looking guitar, has aged to a lovely honey color, but -- in a word it just lacks Guild's *authority*.
Whether they're for you, only you can decide.
I'm very fond of my F212XL. Here's one for a good price on Reverb, and it seems to be in good shape.
Guild F-212XL 1968 - 1986 | Reverb
Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.
reverb.com
Good luck!
Glenn
Beautiful, Heath, but why are you stringing it like a 10-string? BTW, I've never seen an F-212XL with those special fretboard inlays. I have to admit, I think that's really cool. If I recall, Carlo Greco was the luthier that did those... (but I'm not sure).My Hoboken F212XL. Amazing 12:
[edit: never mind.... I see Wiley gave you the idea. ]
wileypickett
Enlightened Member
Heath's 12-string (formerly mine) IS pretty special! He's investing in having the work it needs taken care of, which I never got around to, including having the neck reset.
Heath has been in touch with Hans about this guitar and has been able to find out a lot more about it than I ever did. Rather than spoil it, I'll let Heath tell the story, if he likes! His luthier made some interesting discoveries about it too when he removed the neck.
All my 12-strings are 10-strings, the top two pair of strings being singles rather than unisons.
Why?
To me, the sound of a 12-string is the sound of paired octave strings. And because I play only in open tunings, I usually have more than enough of whatever notes the B and E might be tuned to make the additon of two more of those notes unnecessary. So I just eliminate the the unisons.
Most string bending I do is on the top two strings -- I frequently bend the pitch up a whole step -- and it's easier to "blues" notes if you're working with single strings
Also, 1/6 less tuning is necessary on a 10-string!
Heath has been in touch with Hans about this guitar and has been able to find out a lot more about it than I ever did. Rather than spoil it, I'll let Heath tell the story, if he likes! His luthier made some interesting discoveries about it too when he removed the neck.
All my 12-strings are 10-strings, the top two pair of strings being singles rather than unisons.
Why?
To me, the sound of a 12-string is the sound of paired octave strings. And because I play only in open tunings, I usually have more than enough of whatever notes the B and E might be tuned to make the additon of two more of those notes unnecessary. So I just eliminate the the unisons.
Most string bending I do is on the top two strings -- I frequently bend the pitch up a whole step -- and it's easier to "blues" notes if you're working with single strings
Also, 1/6 less tuning is necessary on a 10-string!
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Sounds good, Glenn!!
Heath, I hope you go ahead and give us the skinny on this very interesting guitar.
Heath, I hope you go ahead and give us the skinny on this very interesting guitar.
beecee
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I'm going to try that before my next restring. I'll remove those two on the old strings, play a bit, and leave them off with the new strings and try it again. makes sense to me. And if I don't care for it, just pop on the last two on like normal.
I actually like to slightly de-tune my 1 and 2 courses to get kind of a reverb effect. At least on my "quieter" 12ers. It's a bit of a chorus effect which I think is also part of 12-string sound (IMO). Having said that, I might try this myself. I don't bend much though.
Heath
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sure thing! It appears to be a late ‘67 or very early ‘68. The neck does not appear to be the it you all neck. In fact, it seems that sometime early on someone took the original neck off and replaced it with a custom Guild neck. It is believed that the neck on it now was -not- taken from another guitar either. I believe that I read that Guild offered custom necks at one time.
Whoever did the job though did not use hide glue, and was a little sloppy around the heel, which makes me think it was not Guild. My luthier doing the work said that the glue oozed black when the neck came off. Secondly it was believed the neck wasn’t on another guitar previous as it didn’t have the steam holes under the 15th fret that would’ve been used to steam it off another guitar.
Also, the case has the name Peter Devin stenciled on to it.
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Heath
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another great benefit, especially if your using lower open tunings is with those extra two strings off it’s even less tension on the neck.
GGJaguar
Reverential Member
I think Roger McGuinn's signature Martin is a 7-string where the G is an octave pair. According to Roger, the 12-string sound's "secret sauce" is the paired G course more than anything else. Don't know if I agree, but he is a 12-string master, so whatever works for him is what counts.