Second Guild BT-258E Baritone headed back to Guild!

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I was changing strings on my Guild Baritone yesterday, when I noticed that the bridge was split across the saddle slot.
This will be the second one to be sent back to Guild with Bridge issues.
The first one was due to the bridge lifting from the guitar.

The timing is bad.
I am planning on taking the guitar with me to Aspen in 2 weeks.
I contacted a local Tech that said he could try to glue the bridge and see if it will hold.
I have no choice but to try the glue first.
If it doesn't hold, and I doubt it will, I hope Guild will make it right with me.

I keep humidifiers inside the cases of my guitars so I doubt this is a humidity related issue.
The bridge appears to be brittle.
Looks like Ebony but it is died so who knows what it really is.
There is a sliver of wood missing in front of the saddle. The color of the wood there is is very light.
These baritone guitars are new to Guild and perhaps they don't have all the bugs worked out with them yet.

I hope they can make it right because I really like the guitar.

 

[wileypickett]

Very odd that this should happen on a new guitar.

When bridges crack across the bridge pin holes it's usually on older guitars and it usually happens for one of two reasons:

1. Someone has replaced the original bridge pins (usually in an attempt to upgrade) with ones of a larger diameter and the pressure of the new pins being forced in with each successive string change eventually causes the bridge to crack. Similarly if the new pins don't have grooved slots in the sides large enough to easily accomodate the wound strings, this may cause undue pressure on the bridge pin holes as well.

2. When the top of a guitar has bellied, the bridge's ability to adhere to it is compromised. (A flat surface -- the bridge -- doesn't want to stay glued to a rounded surface -- a bellied top.) If bridge lift occurs as a result it weakens the bridge since the pull of the strings is no longer held in check by the bridge plate, the top and the bridge all working together -- all that pull is now just on the bridge. If it cracks, it typically cracks where the bridge is weakest -- across the bridge pin holes.

Solution: Be careful that your bridge pins are compatable with the bridge pin holes. If the pins are too tight to go all the way down when the strings are in (modest pressure is all that should be needed) either the pins should be sanded thin or the holes enlarged with a tapered reamer. (Bob Taylor says bridge pins should be able to be removed by hand when the strings are slack -- you shouldn't need a device, like a bridge pin puller, to extract them.)

If the new pins don't have grooved slots deep enough to accomodate the wound strings, either enlarge the pin slots or deepen the string ramps in front of the bridge pin holes. (Some makers don't slot their bridge pins at all -- Collings is one I think -- relying entirely on the string ramps to accomodate the strings.)

Watch for bellying and bridge lift.

TMG: Very good that you're letting Guild know about the problems you're encountering. If the issue is due to poor construction or poor materials, the more feedback they get from customers the greater the liklihood that they'll correct the problem on future builds.

Let us know how things play out.

Good luck!

 

[merlin6666]

Thanks for reporting, this sure is disappointing. I find this the most appealing Guild model available now, but with issues like this sure won't be looking for one any time soon. Please keep us posted.

 

[GGJaguar]

Yikes! Someone needs to look at quality control and maybe even design for that model.

 

[fronobulax]

Yikes! Someone needs to look at quality control and maybe even design for that model.

Didn't the US based employee who had some responsibility in that area get laid off "recently"?

 

[Walter Broes]

That sucks

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I did replace the pins for 2 reasons.
First, the plastic pins that Guild installs on the guitar are not the correct size for the big baritone strings. With both of these guitars, I broke the bass B string pins trying to get the to come out. Others have reported the same problem.
I feel that Brass pins tame the muddiness of a baritone guitar.
I did use a Dremel to open the slot in the brass pin.
Second, The new Brass pins are slightly loose and not tight at all.

I contacted Guild several months ago about using Heavy Gauge strings and tune the guitar D to D.
They said that these strings would be fine as long as I tune the guitar D to D or C# to C#, so the string tension should not be an issue.

I just took the guitar to a local guitar shop that does warranty work for Guild.
The Tech will call Guild and ask if gluing the bridge will be covered under warranty.
Either way, I will have him try gluing the bridge before we consider replacing the bridge.
I really want to take the guitar with me to Aspen in a week.

 

[Heath]

If you’ve changed the pins and more importantly took a dremel to the bridge I doubt anything will be covered by the warranty.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Heath,
I used the Dremel to open the slot in one pin for the Bass B string.
This string is .070 and regular pins are built to fit up to .056 pins.
Nothing was done to the guitar.

These pins were in the first guitar when it was returned to Guild for the lifting Bridge.
Guild had no problem with me using them.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Took the Baritone back to the Shop today.
The Tech tried gluing the crack in the bridge but it didn't hole.
The slot that was cut for the saddle to rest in is not cut right, so the factory saddle is loose and leans foreward,
Guild will decide what to do.
#1 Have the Tech fill and recut the Bridge.
#2 Have the Tech replace the Bridge
#3 sent the guitar back and replace it.

I don't care which one they choose to do, as long as it is done right and solves the problem.
Now the wait begins.

 

[GGJaguar]

Bummer. Guild needs to get its QC act together.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Bummer. Guild needs to get its QC act together.
In their defense, this is a Chinese build.
I do agree that the problem should have never existed though.

 

[GAD]

Bummer. Guild needs to get its QC act together.

They had it together and let the QC guy go.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I'm very temped to sell the replacement and go a different direction now.

 

[wileypickett]

I'm very temped to sell the replacement and go a different direction now.

I don't blame you -- I'd been curious about these guitars, but your expereince has "modulated" whatever enthusiasm I had.

 

[g.e.lewis49]

I was intrigued by the reviews I read on the BT-258. There were no dealers in my area (MN) who had one to try, so I ordered one through the local Guitar Center knowing they had a liberal return policy. When I picked the instrument up, their repair person encouraged me to purchase Guitar Center's "extended warranty", saying that he had repaired several 8 and 12-string Guilds lately where the bridge had separated from the body. He went on to say that Guild doesn't cover this under their warranty, claiming it's due to user abuse. Based on that, I passed on the BT-258E and instead purchased a BT-240E.

 

[vetterdog]

I recently picked up one of these BT 258Es and I absolutely love it and have had no issues. I saw several reviews online that mentioned the bridge pins breaking, so I proactively bought a set of Yootones brass pins on eBay for it. When I removed the original factory pins I did find them to be VERY tight and I feared one or more of them would break, but i got them out without incident. The Yootones brass pins fit very nicely and the grooves are cut sufficiently to fit all the strings. Hard to tell if the sound improved since I replaced the original factory strings at the time, but I have noticed improved clarity with the brass pins on another large-bodied acoustic I own. Hope this helps, and I hope you get it sorted- I can't put mine down!

 

[SydShanshala]

Bought a BT258 when they came out, enjoyed it until I tried to change the strings. The low B bridge pin was stuck to the ball end of the string on the underside of the top, they had essentially become one thing (maybe the guitar got hot in shipping and the plastic was soft enough to “form” around the ball?) tried literally everything I could think of to get it out including tying fishing line to the ball end and pulling from the bottom and top simultaneously, nothing worked. It got to a point where I was afraid I’d crack the top. Sold it to guitar center for a loss. Shame on guild for not using proper bridge pins on these guitars, plastic does not cut it with a model like this and I’d have happily paid an extra 50 bucks for a proper set and a functional instrument. Sigh.

Edit: mine also had the oversized saddle slot.

 

[kitniyatran]

I've had plastic Bridge pins break on more than one guitar at least one instance go flying across the room so I automatically replace plastic Bridge pins with bone when they're white ebony when they're black they don't break and they don't become welded to the string balls

 

[JohnW63]

Dang. They look like such a cool instrument.