runout in guild guitars

[pyrrho]

How common is runout in guild guitars? I just bought a barely used guild d55 for a good price but noticed it had runout. I was surprised, given that this is supposed to be guild's flagship guitar. So is runout common? Does guild care?

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome.

My knee jerk reaction is that it is not very common at all because I have never seen it discussed before but that could be because folks just don't use the term "runout" :wink:

The answer may also depend upon which factory made it.

 

[capnjuan]

Hi and welcome but no answer for you.

For anyone (else) not familiar with the term: Grain Runout from Frets.com.

 

[pyrrho]

Welcome.

My knee jerk reaction is that it is not very common at all because I have never seen it discussed before but that could be because folks just don't use the term "runout" :wink:

The answer may also depend upon which factory made it.

Thanks for the response. It's a new Connecticut model, a 2009. You'd think in their first year they'd want to show off their wares. So for those who might not be aware of the term, "runout" is commonly used to describe the appearance of a guitar top where one side appears darker than the other. The causes of this have been discussed elsewhere, and its effect on the tone of the guitar is debatable. I'm just wondering how common this is in guilds.

 

[Dadaist]

How common is runout in guild guitars? I just bought a barely used guild d55 for a good price but noticed it had runout. I was surprised, given that this is supposed to be guild's flagship guitar. So is runout common? Does guild care?

Welcome,
A while back I had gone to a Seller's house to look at a vintage '70s F-212XL. The difference was so apparent on the lower bout that I almost didn't purchase the guitar. When the Seller held the guitar at an angle, it almost looked two-tone.

When I brought this to His attention, He produced another '70s F-212XL (the Guy liked Guild 12'vers) with the same coloring. He then showed me an original Guild catalog of this model, and you could see the same "discoloration" on the print ad.

It seems that this isn't uncommon in Guilds, or at least on '70s F-212XL's. I've owned a number of vintage Guilds and several showed slightly different "shades" of spruce. It didn't seem to affect the tone.

If it's something that's going to be a glaring equivalent of a wart on your True Love's Forehead, and the first thing you notice
every time you take it out of the case, then you have to decide if the discount was worth it.

David

 

[pyrrho]

How common is runout in guild guitars? I just bought a barely used guild d55 for a good price but noticed it had runout. I was surprised, given that this is supposed to be guild's flagship guitar. So is runout common? Does guild care?

Welcome,
A while back I had gone to a Seller's house to look at a vintage '70s F-212XL. The difference was so apparent on the lower bout that I almost didn't purchase the guitar. When the Seller held the guitar at an angle, it almost looked two-tone.

When I brought this to His attention, He produced another '70s F-212XL (the Guy liked Guild 12'vers) with the same coloring. He then showed me an original Guild catalog of this model, and you could see the same "discoloration" on the print ad.

It seems that this isn't uncommon in Guilds, or at least on '70s F-212XL's. I've owned a number of vintage Guilds and several showed slightly different "shades" of spruce. It didn't seem to affect the tone.

If it's something that's going to be a glaring equivalent of a wart on your True Love's Forehead, and the first thing you notice
every time you take it out of the case, then you have to decide if the discount was worth it.

David

It's half the price new. Is that worth a wart? I'm not sure.

 

[capnjuan]

... It's half the price new. Is that worth a wart? I'm not sure.

The market for warts is subjective; one man's wart is another's idea of a beauty mark as with 'bearclaw'.
See area below MM's left eye:

 

[davismanLV]

Thanks for the link, Captain!! I have heard the term before, but was not familiar with what it meant. The link was very helpful. Sounds like it can effect the strength a bit, but that it's mostly a cosmetic thing. I have seen this phenomenon in guitars before and wondered at its cause. I went and checked the D65S and it's amazing how uniform the grain and color are on that guitar. It's impossible to tell where it is joined and the color remains exactly the same regardless of the direction of the light.

 

[twocorgis]

How common is runout in guild guitars? I just bought a barely used guild d55 for a good price but noticed it had runout. I was surprised, given that this is supposed to be guild's flagship guitar. So is runout common? Does guild care?

Welcome,
A while back I had gone to a Seller's house to look at a vintage '70s F-212XL. The difference was so apparent on the lower bout that I almost didn't purchase the guitar. When the Seller held the guitar at an angle, it almost looked two-tone.

When I brought this to His attention, He produced another '70s F-212XL (the Guy liked Guild 12'vers) with the same coloring. He then showed me an original Guild catalog of this model, and you could see the same "discoloration" on the print ad.

It seems that this isn't uncommon in Guilds, or at least on '70s F-212XL's. I've owned a number of vintage Guilds and several showed slightly different "shades" of spruce. It didn't seem to affect the tone.

If it's something that's going to be a glaring equivalent of a wart on your True Love's Forehead, and the first thing you notice
every time you take it out of the case, then you have to decide if the discount was worth it.

David

It's half the price new. Is that worth a wart? I'm not sure.

Half price? It sure would be to me. Runout sure doesn't seem to have any effect on my D25-12; no sir...

Indoors, you can't see it at all.

 

[Dadaist]

How common is runout in guild guitars? I just bought a barely used guild d55 for a good price but noticed it had runout. I was surprised, given that this is supposed to be guild's flagship guitar. So is runout common? Does guild care?

Welcome,
A while back I had gone to a Seller's house to look at a vintage '70s F-212XL. The difference was so apparent on the lower bout that I almost didn't purchase the guitar. When the Seller held the guitar at an angle, it almost looked two-tone.

When I brought this to His attention, He produced another '70s F-212XL (the Guy liked Guild 12'vers) with the same coloring. He then showed me an original Guild catalog of this model, and you could see the same "discoloration" on the print ad.

It seems that this isn't uncommon in Guilds, or at least on '70s F-212XL's. I've owned a number of vintage Guilds and several showed slightly different "shades" of spruce. It didn't seem to affect the tone.

If it's something that's going to be a glaring equivalent of a wart on your True Love's Forehead, and the first thing you notice
every time you take it out of the case, then you have to decide if the discount was worth it.

David

It's half the price new. Is that worth a wart? I'm not sure.

Well, was that half the price Retail or Street? Again, if it's something that's going to gnaw at you,
it's a decision you've got to make. You'd think that the quality control on Their Top of the Line Dread, would be a
bit better, but in Guild's defense it might not have been as obvious on bare wood, and was more prominent only after the clearcoat was applied.

David

 

[capnjuan]

Thanks for the link, Captain!! I have heard the term before, but was not familiar with what it meant.

You're welcome Tom ... same for me .. had heard it but didn't know what it meant. I'd get this image in my head of a guitar running out of a room ... but I was pretty sure that wasn't what it meant.

 

[6L6]

In 1976 I bought a new Martin HD-28. It sounded good, but had major runout. Eventually I just couldn't look at it anymore.

Haven't bought a guitar with runout since.

6

'74 D-40
'76 F-50SB
'06 D-55
'06 F-412

 

[davismanLV]

Thanks for the link, Captain!! I have heard the term before, but was not familiar with what it meant.

You're welcome Tom ... same for me .. had heard it but didn't know what it meant. I'd get this image in my head of a guitar running out of a room ... but I was pretty sure that wasn't what it meant.

EXACTLY!!! With my vivid imagination, giving me vague terms like that is just asking for trouble...... :lol:

 

[chazmo]

Wow, I'm surprised about the level of interest/concern over runout. I really don't know how much quality control is concerned with runout... Perhaps not at all. Mostly they're looking for wood grain anomalies, stains, and in the small volume world tap tone (I don't think Guild craftsmen tap their tops, but I could be wrong about that).

6L6, really? Runout really turned you off to an HD-28? It'd take a lot more than that to sour me on mine.

I think runout is common in most brands. Perhaps, sometimes it becomes more visible over time as natural tops age and get darker... I don't know.

 

[6L6]

I think runout is common in most brands

I've yet to see a Collings guitar with runout. However, I've sure seen plenty of Martins (including the '76 HD-28 I owned).

In 2009 I had a Martin D-35 Custom made to my specs. One requirement was an upgrade to a very tight grained spruce top with no runout or bearclaw, and with vintage toner and vintage toned binding (don't like the "hospital white" that is standard for their binding). The end product was stunning.

You'll often see ebony fretboards now on Martin guitar models D-35 and lower that are not pure black. I find that annoying as well and also specified solid black for my D-35 Custom.

Yes, it's all asthetics (although some folks say runout is a sign of weaker wood), but it gets on my mind in a negative way when I see it.

6

 

[Brad Little]

Is runout apparent before a guitar is finished?
Brad

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I asked this same question a while back.
I was told by someone that I think should know what he is talking about, that Guild gets their tops from a company that is know for run-out tops.
Personally, I have seen more Guilds with run-out than any other major guitar maker.
I'm not found of the look of run-out but it doesn't seem to hurt the sound of the guitars at all.
My 1991 JF-30-12 had run-out that was very noticeable but it was a sweet sounding guitar.

 

[davismanLV]

Is runout apparent before a guitar is finished?
Brad

Brad, you can tell what the wood will look like finished by just wetting it with something. Usually denatured alcohol works the best, just dampen a cloth with it and wipe it over the raw wood and .... what you see when it's wet, is what you'll see when you put a clear lacquer on it, or any type of clear finish. I'm sure if you wiped it across the joint line of a soundboard, you'd see the difference. However, I doubt they are very concerned about this and once the top is on the guitar.... what are you gonna do? Take it off? You'd have to do this before the soundboard was ever installed. I guess it's aesthetics..... it doesn't bother me that much, but some people find it troublesome, I guess.

 

[6L6]

More on runout here:

http://www.frets.com/fretspages/general/glossary/Runout/runout.html

6

 

[fronobulax]

Guild gets their tops from a company that is know for run-out tops.

Could you elaborate? Does your source claim that is true in 2011 or some earlier time? If you asked me I would have said Guild makes their own tops (now) so it sounds like I have some corrections to make or at least refine my definition of guitar top. Thanks.