Reset time cost vs value

[Br1ck]

It's hard for me to fathom, but D 18s from the mid to late 60s that have already had neck resets have been listed in the mid to high $3,000s recently. So realistically you could buy one in need of work for $2K and still have a market value guitar when all is said and done. The recent thread regarding a D 40 from that era has me wondering what you'd need to buy one for to have the neck reset and still do OK. The numbers don't add up if you pay more than $500 for one, unless you can find someone like the recent thread described.

Hard to fathom how many guitars will end up in closets because owners won't accept a realistic price to sell, and won't invest in fixing them. A real shame akin to the many Alverez and Yamahas of the 70s in the same boat.

 

[Heath]

Value is also subjective. I’ve paid $300 to have a neck reset done on a 1980 Yamaha FG that I couldn’t sell for $250 (which is a shame as some of those old FG’s sound amazing). But, it was a present from my late mother to my father in 1980, so priceless to me. It was the first guitar I ever played as a kid.

 

[fronobulax]

The economics of repair or replace vary with the item but in a product line where the products are evolving or improving the advice is usually to replace if the cost to repair is close to half of the cost to replace. You could argue that guitars do not evolve but there is always someone who thinks a different tonewood or bracing pattern or factory electronics is an upgrade. So even if there were a luthier on every corner who could do a good neck reset there will still be people who don't care enough to repair and would chose to replace.

This gets complicated by the fact that good luthiers are hard to find and round trip shipping can approach the cost of the repairs. So unless the instrument has some serious practical or emotional value the economics alone are not going to justify major repairs.

That said, if you have a good luthier there is certainly an opportunity to make money by buying low, fixing and then selling high. The value you add by doing so is the buyer does not have to find a luthier themselves. (Having said that there are also folks on LTG who would prefer to buy low and then have their luthier do the work).

Your comment about unwilling to sell at a realistic (in your opinion) price is rooted in sentiment. "I bought this 20 years ago for $X and I won't take less than $X for it today" is common especially with items that don't hold their value - obsolete technology, collectibles that aren't being collected anymore, things that have gone out of fashion, etc. I have friends in my generation and my parents generation especially who cannot declutter because they can't accept that something they valued is no longer of interest to anyone else, including their family.

 

[Stuball48]

Well said Frono

 

[Butch]

Neck resets are really just normal maintenance on any 40+ year old guitar. I really don’t think that you can look at it the way you are trying to look at it in terms of value.

 

[fronobulax]

Neck resets are really just normal maintenance on any 40+ year old guitar. I really don’t think that you can look at it the way you are trying to look at it in terms of value.

There was an inconclusive for me debate on LTG about whether neck resets were inevitable. There were anecdotes on both sides but if someone said they wanted their instrument to last 50 years without needing a reset that wasn't a forlorn hope.

 

[donnylang]

There was an inconclusive for me debate on LTG about whether neck resets were inevitable. There were anecdotes on both sides but if someone said they wanted their instrument to last 50 years without needing a reset that wasn't a forlorn hope.

I wonder how much of this comes down to climate. I admit when I’m looking for guitars, I consider being located in California to be an asset.

 

[adorshki]

There was an inconclusive for me debate on LTG about whether neck resets were inevitable. There were anecdotes on both sides but if someone said they wanted their instrument to last 50 years without needing a reset that wasn't a forlorn hope.

Martin warranted their necksets until "recently", sometime in the last ten years, I think?

 

[kostask]

Martin used to warranty their neck sets for life. They don't any more.

Neck reset intervals do depend on the neck joint to a great degree, as well as the string tension. There seems to be far less of a need for neck resets on Gibsons, as opposed to Martins, for example. It is not unusual to see 1950s Gibsons that still have an acceptable neck angle, where a Martin may have had one or two already. Guilds seem to lean more towards the Martin schedule.

 

[RBSinTo]

Just another personal point of view:
The " Early and Frequent Martin Neck Re-set" kvetching is something the Gibsonans are always pushing at their site, so hearing it here is nothing new.
My Martin is a 1974 D-28, and it has never had a re-set. A year or so ago, it needed some minor work and at the time I specifically asked the Luthiers to determine if a re-set was necessary. It was not.
However, had it been required, I would have spent the $600.00 (Canadian) to have it done in a heart beat.
RBSinTo

 

[tommym]

It's hard for me to fathom.....

Depending on the overall condition of the guitar, you may have the additional costs of the following:

Refret
Planning of the fretboard (if the resulting hump at the neck joint to too pronounced after the reset; adding a tapered shim under the fretboard extension is another option)
New saddle
New nut
Finish touchup around the neck heel

The cost estimate that I got for this work on a vintage Guild F30 that I was selling varied from $800 to $1,000 USD.

Tommy

 

[Nuuska]

. . . . because they can't accept that something they valued is no longer of interest to anyone else, including their family.

Their family is no longer of interest to anyone ? ? ?

 

[fronobulax]

Their family is no longer of interest to anyone ? ? ?

In case this is an English issue a paraphrase...

"because they can't accept that "something" they valued is no longer of interest to their family. Neither is that "something" of interest to anyone else."

 

[Br1ck]

I'm definitely in the fix it regardless camp for solid wood guitars. Up to a point. What is a 70 D 35 worth? $1200 on a good day? All told, I feel good having a total $1400 in mine. Yes, the guitar had the neck set, new frets, saddle, bridge and nut. A soundhole crack was glued and cleated, and the neck, which had been sanded to bare wood, had a coat or two of lacquer sprayed on it. Had I bought the guitar for $800 instead of $250, I might not feel so good about it. Then again, it's a satisfying guitar.

 

[RBSinTo]

After I close my eyes for the last time, my five guitars will likely either be given away or sold. If they bring more than I paid, great. And if not that's ok too.
I bought them to play, to use, to enjoy the music they made. They were not purchased as investments, so any money spent to repair or refurbish them was so I could continue to play, use and enjoy the music they made, and whether my family makes profit above what I originally paid, (plus any repair/maintenence costs), from their sale is immaterial and of no consequence.
RBSinTo

 

[Heath]

I'm definitely in the fix it regardless camp for solid wood guitars.

I’ve had some Yamaha FG’s that sounded better than some of my Guilds!

 

[Brad Little]

I’ve had some Yamaha FG’s that sounded better than some of my Guilds!

At our most recent Folk Society jam, my former singing partner brought her old red label Yamaha, not sure the model, but it's a dread. She said she'd been playing it more than her Martin (D-12, maybe, not sure) because it sounded better to her ears.

 

[bobouz]

The " Early and Frequent Martin Neck Re-set" kvetching is something the Gibsonans are always pushing at their site, so hearing it here is nothing new. My Martin is a 1974 D-28, and it has never had a re-set.

I periodically bring this up when the topic turns to Martin’s perceived perfection, but the issues I mention are regarding current production. Per UMGF’s repair info section, there have been ongoing issues (going back to around 2013, iirc) with bindings popping off at the waist, bridges lifting, and necks needing to be reset after only a few years of ownership. And this is occurring on expensive models, such as the Authentic Series.

Martins from the ‘70s were a different animal. Regarded as somewhat of a low point in Martin’s history, I played a stellar-sounding 1970 00-18 for over twenty years. You never know where the gems will come from. Unfortunately, by 2001, that 00-18 needed a neck reset, so I traded it in on a new ‘01 Martin custom rosewood dread, which I continue to enjoy when it periodically gets pulled into the rotation. Martin is of course still capable of making a fine instrument, but their recent production issues have been problematic for many owners.

 

[valleyguy]

Car restoration is a popular pastime for a lot of people. I've never understood it, except for the fun of doing it, and of course, if you can sell it for more than you put in it.. Older cars are not as good as newer cars, so from a practical perspective, there is no reason to fix them up.

Guitars, however, improve with age, so fixing up an old guitar, though it may not bring a financial windfall, brings satisfaction to its owner. That said, the price of old Gibsons is amazing, and if they don't need repairs on top of that, they certainly look like a good investment.

That said, I was the one who fixed up the '68 D40. Had I needed to spend $1,000 to do a neck reset, I'm not sure I would have done it, of course I hadn't had enough time to get attached to it. I've spent the last week playing it a lot, it is markedly different than any guitar I have, bright and clear. There are some things I like about it, others I don't (as is the case with most guitars). For now it is a keeper.

 

[fronobulax]

Unfortunately, by 2001, that 00-18 needed a neck reset, so I traded it in on a new ‘01 Martin custom rosewood dread,

A real world example where, for one person, the answer to "Replace or repair (reset)?" was replace.